Permanently identifying weapons

fearn · 29th June 2008, 05:08 PM

Hi All,

This is inspired both by an idea I posted in the Keris Warung Kopi on the future of the keris and the thread on the Origin of the Mindanoan kris

Basically, it's a question of how to permanently date and authenticate weapons.

The prediction I posted in the keris thread was, 30 years: "Biotechnology and advances in isotopic chemistry will allow keris owners to cheaply authenticate their antique keris as antiques, and to store that information in a way that travels with the keris. Antique keris, particularly those made of materials like ivory, will re-enter the international trade."

How to do this? I'm not too worried about the precise technology. That's going to change fast enough that our blades may actually get retested as technology improves.

No, the bigger issue is: what part(s) of the weapon get tested, and how the information gets stored in a way that travels with the weapon. The issues we need to think about are how to minimize the damage to the artifact by sampling, and how to make sure that the information is associated with that artifact only, and not moved (or copied) to a fake or weapon of lesser quality.

Now biotech and isotopic samples are going to be destructive. Part of whatever gets tested will have to be sacrificed. In one way, this isn't so bad, because if the material removal is mindful and esthetic, the mark of material removed actually serves as part of the permanent record. Material can be cut off with a hacksaw, or it can be carefully removed, leaving a distinctive but minor mark that can be pointed as evidence of authenticity. "See, that's where they removed the metal for the 2015 test." Or "See, that's the core they removed to date the ivory." Obviously such marks can be faked, and that's where an artistic job of sampling is useful. The harder it is to fake the sample site, the better. If the sampling hole is an irregular heptagon with precisely measured faces and angles, a forger probably won't bother trying to copy it precisely.

The second question is how the information would travel. Alam Shah suggested embedding a microchip in the keris, and that's not a bad idea. It's also an easy thing to hack, both in the sense of copying the information and hacking the microchip out and embedding it elsewhere. My thought was, again, somewhat destructive: engraving a code (potentially machine readable) on the tang of the blade, and saving the information on the web, preferably in multiple locations. If there's a complete description of a weapon, complete with code, sampling marks, isotopic and biochemical markers, etc., that's readily available to anyone with web access (including a customs agent), then a weapon can travel freely from collector to collector. The issue is how to do it.

This applies to all of our collectibles, not just keris, and one obvious problem is that many blades have multiple dresses (different scabbards, hilts, etc). Does each piece get authenticated, or only the blade? Should it vary, with (for example) katanas getting different treatment than European antiques?

What I'm trying to do is figure out a minimally destructive way of authenticating antique weapons, storing the information where everyone can access it, it would take the collapse of civilization (or similar) to destroy that informaiton, and it would be relatively easy to confirm that an antique is what is recorded without doing further destructive tests to the antique.

What do you think? Comments? How would we go about setting this up? Or is something like this already in place, and could it be expanded?

F

29th June 2008, 05:08 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Permanently identifying weapons Hi All, This is inspired both by an idea I posted in the Keris Warung Kopi on the future of the keris and the thread on the Origin of the Mindanoan kris Basically, it's a question of how to permanently date and authenticate weapons. The prediction I posted in the keris thread was, 30 years: "Biotechnology and advances in isotopic chemistry will allow keris owners to cheaply authenticate their antique keris as antiques, and to store that information in a way that travels with the keris. Antique keris, particularly those made of materials like ivory, will re-enter the international trade." How to do this? I'm not too worried about the precise technology. That's going to change fast enough that our blades may actually get retested as technology improves. No, the bigger issue is: what part(s) of the weapon get tested, and how the information gets stored in a way that travels with the weapon. The issues we need to think about are how to minimize the damage to the artifact by sampling, and how to make sure that the information is associated with that artifact only, and not moved (or copied) to a fake or weapon of lesser quality. Now biotech and isotopic samples are going to be destructive. Part of whatever gets tested will have to be sacrificed. In one way, this isn't so bad, because if the material removal is mindful and esthetic, the mark of material removed actually serves as part of the permanent record. Material can be cut off with a hacksaw, or it can be carefully removed, leaving a distinctive but minor mark that can be pointed as evidence of authenticity. "See, that's where they removed the metal for the 2015 test." Or "See, that's the core they removed to date the ivory." Obviously such marks can be faked, and that's where an artistic job of sampling is useful. The harder it is to fake the sample site, the better. If the sampling hole is an irregular heptagon with precisely measured faces and angles, a forger probably won't bother trying to copy it precisely. The second question is how the information would travel. Alam Shah suggested embedding a microchip in the keris, and that's not a bad idea. It's also an easy thing to hack, both in the sense of copying the information and hacking the microchip out and embedding it elsewhere. My thought was, again, somewhat destructive: engraving a code (potentially machine readable) on the tang of the blade, and saving the information on the web, preferably in multiple locations. If there's a complete description of a weapon, complete with code, sampling marks, isotopic and biochemical markers, etc., that's readily available to anyone with web access (including a customs agent), then a weapon can travel freely from collector to collector. The issue is how to do it. This applies to all of our collectibles, not just keris, and one obvious problem is that many blades have multiple dresses (different scabbards, hilts, etc). Does each piece get authenticated, or only the blade? Should it vary, with (for example) katanas getting different treatment than European antiques? What I'm trying to do is figure out a minimally destructive way of authenticating antique weapons, storing the information where everyone can access it, it would take the collapse of civilization (or similar) to destroy that informaiton, and it would be relatively easy to confirm that an antique is what is recorded without doing further destructive tests to the antique. What do you think? Comments? How would we go about setting this up? Or is something like this already in place, and could it be expanded? F