New Member-Help please on 2 18th C sabres

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2023, 08:21 PM

Interesting sabers, and I would point out that the topic of French swords is only nominally (at best) traveled as it is a highly specialized field. Fortunately there are a few around who specialize in degree enough in European swords to contribute important details.
I have personally always wished I could get further into the field, but research material is obscure, expensive as are of course the weapons themselves.

As someone who collects Nihonto and Indo-Persian you are of course well accustomed to formidable topics.

What I can add here is that, categorization of officers swords from 17th through 18th century is typically a conundrum at best, as officers were inclined to have essentially carte blanche in their weapons. These were typically commissioned to cutlers and outfitters who followed popular styles and patterns of the locale, period, and personal whims of the individual. While they often added the devices and symbols pertaining to the unit or type unit in which they commanded, there was often degree of variation.

With blades, these are probably best avoided as far as use in classification as far as nationality or such specific categories, as these are often imported and broadly used by cutlers and outfitters in many countries and regions.
It is well known that fully decorated blades for officers swords were imported from various blade making centers, most notably of course Solingen.

The term 'Caissagnard' is simply the name of one Nantes situated cutler in France among others, even in other locations, and became a neologism for blades embellished with Eastern theme and occult/magic symbolism.

With the hilts, again, the term 'custom' is hard to apply to the hilt and mounts of an officers sword, which were inherently, but not always, privately commissioned. There were some made up of similar 'pattern' or type which were simply outfitted with personalized engraved blades.
Military fashion, from the mid 18th c. with its apex in the Napoleonic period
had officers constantly in competition with uniforms and of course swords in accord.

The punzone seen is of course probably a makers mark, or the representation of one, keeping in mind the spurious use of blade making notables as common in Solingen. It is sometimes difficult to specify these as well asin many cases the original mark might have subsequent variation as the business descended to other family, or in some cases was sold to another maker.

All of these elements put together are the circumstances to be considered in identifying of weapons, and why the term conundrum is applicable in many cases. This is often a key deterrent to many reading out there as far as adding posts on many topics.

13th December 2023, 08:21 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,837	Interesting sabers, and I would point out that the topic of French swords is only nominally (at best) traveled as it is a highly specialized field. Fortunately there are a few around who specialize in degree enough in European swords to contribute important details. I have personally always wished I could get further into the field, but research material is obscure, expensive as are of course the weapons themselves. As someone who collects Nihonto and Indo-Persian you are of course well accustomed to formidable topics. What I can add here is that, categorization of officers swords from 17th through 18th century is typically a conundrum at best, as officers were inclined to have essentially carte blanche in their weapons. These were typically commissioned to cutlers and outfitters who followed popular styles and patterns of the locale, period, and personal whims of the individual. While they often added the devices and symbols pertaining to the unit or type unit in which they commanded, there was often degree of variation. With blades, these are probably best avoided as far as use in classification as far as nationality or such specific categories, as these are often imported and broadly used by cutlers and outfitters in many countries and regions. It is well known that fully decorated blades for officers swords were imported from various blade making centers, most notably of course Solingen. The term 'Caissagnard' is simply the name of one Nantes situated cutler in France among others, even in other locations, and became a neologism for blades embellished with Eastern theme and occult/magic symbolism. With the hilts, again, the term 'custom' is hard to apply to the hilt and mounts of an officers sword, which were inherently, but not always, privately commissioned. There were some made up of similar 'pattern' or type which were simply outfitted with personalized engraved blades. Military fashion, from the mid 18th c. with its apex in the Napoleonic period had officers constantly in competition with uniforms and of course swords in accord. The punzone seen is of course probably a makers mark, or the representation of one, keeping in mind the spurious use of blade making notables as common in Solingen. It is sometimes difficult to specify these as well asin many cases the original mark might have subsequent variation as the business descended to other family, or in some cases was sold to another maker. All of these elements put together are the circumstances to be considered in identifying of weapons, and why the term conundrum is applicable in many cases. This is often a key deterrent to many reading out there as far as adding posts on many topics.