Tegha or similar ?

[Norman McCormick]

Hi all,
Picked up this item today. I'm not sure how to categorize this sword so help needed. Length 28 inches, blade 23 1/2 inches, blade width at widest 1 7/8 inches. Looks and feels to have some age and not sure whether blade and guard/hilt a later marriage. I have looked for the same blade markings in previous posts, some similar but none exactly the same that I could find. Feels nice in the hand, a kind of Indian Dussack. As usual all thoughts and ideas sought.
Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Blade has a pronounced T spine for approx 17 inches from guard. Sosun ?

[Jim McDougall]

This extremely short, heavy bladed sword with old Indian khanda type hilt, is tempting to consider that if ever there were an Indian maritime cutlass, this would be what it would look like. By general appearance it seems that this may likely be a North India Hindu weapon , and while it attempts to classify as the broad, heavy bladed tegha associated with these groups...the tegha has a back curved blade, as do the Islamic sosun pattahs which feature the T section back edge.

The blade has interesting appearance of watering, and the marking is a clear native interpretation of the so called sickle mark that is almost consistantly placed on the blades of paluoars of Afghanistan in this same blade location. It is a somewhat debased version as the dots are inconsistant on the half circles. The stepped choil at the end of the blade reminiscent of the 'Indian ricasso' seems to correspond to many 18th-early 19th century tulwar blades.
The T spine is most unusual, on this type of blade which is like a broad, short tulwar blade, but is quite typical on the edged weapons of Afghanistan such as the choora and Khyber knife (which is actually a heavy short sword).

I would think this heavy short sword has some very interesting possibilities, with the Maratha Hindu style hilt, and the fact that the Marathas were actively involved in European trade which appears to have included some naval activity. This suggests this unusual short sword may actually be maritime, but as far as I know, no maritime cutlass from India has ever been proven specifically, only presumed.

It is noted that the Maratha Raja Sivaji had a favored sword, which was said to be 'Genoan'. The 'sickle' type marking previously described is generally held as originally of Genoan origin (though widely copied). Apparantly Sivaji had a naval commander, Angria (P.Rawson "The Indian Sword", 1968, p.45), which indicates of course the Marathas did have naval forces.

Though the Marathas favored European blades, straight and usually broadsword, and were apparantly not fond of curved blades (Rawson, op.cit. p.45)...this short, slightly curved heavy sword of almost cutlass type might have been ideal for naval use.

This is of course strictly speculation, and I think worthy of further research in this interesting example.

All best regards,
Jim


P.S. Dussacks were often used as naval weapons, and often fell into the 'cutlass' classification.

[ward]

The spike is missing off the pommel and the blade is very short for a khanda hilt so I believe this could be a marriage. I am not saying it did not see use in its current configuration just that originally it was probaly hilted somewhat different. May have been a little longer too

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ward,
Difficult to know for sure if the spike existed or not certainly the edge is smooth and the hole is filled as is the whole dome which gives a nice counterbalance to the sword. I don't think it has been shortened by much, if at all, to continue the blade on its present curve would, to me, give a blade of very unwieldy and impractical proportions much like some of the Napoleonic British flank officers swords. The blade has been sharpened to take into account the mounting flange so if it is a marriage, as indeed I first thought, it would have to be a very old one maybe even an older hilt on a newer blade. The rivets that connect the flange to the basket appear to have been there a long time.

Hi Jim,
Many thanks as usual for all the information. I agree an unusual piece, an instant attraction for me. It certainly has the feel of a naval 'cutlass' type sword. I suppose when thinking of naval it doesn't need to be the sea, river pirates etc. sprung to my mind, must be the romantic in me. India has vast river complexes that have been used for centuries for trade etc. it is not too fanciful I think to imagine that a pirate or a merchant might find a good use such a sword. The only other thing I can think of is possibly a hunting sword similar to the European hunting hangar. The pirate scenario appeals more though. I hope more forum members will post their ideas. Thanks again for your interest.

Regards to All,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
Do you have any pictorial examples of the Genoan sickle marks.
My Regards,
Norman.

[bhushan_lawate]

Hi all,

Marathas did have a very strong navy presence. So did the Siddhi's (who were originally from Africa and were working under the Mughals)

There are historical accounts of lot of naval wars fought between the forces of British, Portugese, Marathas and Siddhis.

I have personally seen and have had the rare privilege of handling the personal sword of the first Maratha Admiral, Kanhoji Angre (also known as Angria in the British Factory Records).

Interestingly the sword in discussion here is very similar except that the personal sword of Angre has three fullers and a normal tulwar hilt. It also has some star shaped marks on the blade near the spine. It does not have a T shaped back but has a thick spine for reinforcement.

We cannot rule out the possibility of this sword being a naval sword.


Regards,
Bhushan.

http://indiannavy.nic.in/history.htm

P.S.: The Angre descendants are still living off the coast of Mumbai, India on a beach town called Alibaug. It is at their ancestral home in Alibaug the Famous Angre sword sits proudly in the Altar and is worshiped on auspicious days.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Bhushan,
Thanks for your input and the info, a very interesting site. Here is, I hope, a few better photos, one with a late 18th Century British cutlass blade for comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Jim,
Do you have any pictorial examples of the Genoan sickle marks.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,
I dont have illustrations handy, but they have been discussed here quite a few times over the years (especially on the early makers trademarks thread now over on European Armoury). These markings have been the subject of considerable debate since the late 19th century, and commonly appear also on Caucasian blades termed 'gurda', as mentioned nearly all Afghan paluoars that I have seen, occasionally on Scottish Andrea Ferara blades, many European blades seen in "Cut and Thrust Weapons" E. Wagner, 1967, and some others.

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Hi all,

Marathas did have a very strong navy presence. So did the Siddhi's (who were originally from Africa and were working under the Mughals)

There are historical accounts of lot of naval wars fought between the forces of British, Portugese, Marathas and Siddhis.

I have personally seen and have had the rare privilege of handling the personal sword of the first Maratha Admiral, Kanhoji Angre (also known as Angria in the British Factory Records).

Interestingly the sword in discussion here is very similar except that the personal sword of Angre has three fullers and a normal tulwar hilt. It also has some star shaped marks on the blade near the spine. It does not have a T shaped back but has a thick spine for reinforcement.

We cannot rule out the possibility of this sword being a naval sword.


Regards,
Bhushan.

http://indiannavy.nic.in/history.htm

P.S.: The Angre descendants are still living off the coast of Mumbai, India on a beach town called Alibaug. It is at their ancestral home in Alibaug the Famous Angre sword sits proudly in the Altar and is worshiped on auspicious days.

Bhushan, thank you so much for your most valuable input on this sword. I very much appreciate your support for the possibility of this being a Maratha naval sword, and I find it very exciting to hear about the Angre sword. Is it possible that illustrations of this sword might be avialable? and would it be possible for them to be shown here given the deep reverence in which it is held by these descendants?

Very best regards,
Jim

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Norman,
I dont have illustrations handy, but they have been discussed here quite a few times over the years (especially on the early makers trademarks thread now over on European Armoury). These markings have been the subject of considerable debate since the late 19th century, and commonly appear also on Caucasian blades termed 'gurda', as mentioned nearly all Afghan paluoars that I have seen, occasionally on Scottish Andrea Ferara blades, many European blades seen in "Cut and Thrust Weapons" E. Wagner, 1967, and some others.

All the best,
Jim

Here is a "gurda" marking on a sword from Afghanistan.
Very nice sword/cutlass Norman! The possibility of it being a Maratha naval cutlass is especially intriguing.
Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Teodor for showing this example of the mark, which appears in proximity with what appears one of the Afghan arsenal marks. This one appears to emphasize the dentated or toothed characteristic of the original Genoan type markings. These usually were adjacent, opposed half circles, toothed and with three dots at each terminus of the half circle line.

With Genoan trade, these blade markings, which may have been guild markings rather than individual makers marks, but in any case signifying quality, found application on blades in other centers such as Styria, and finally Solingen. It is unclear why the mark seems to have appeared more consistantly on Afghan paluoar blades than other familiar European marks, but this was the case, and the influence seems to have reached other Indian trade, as possibly in this case with the Marathas.

All best regards,
Jim

[bhushan_lawate]

Hi all,

I do not have the snaps of this sword available with me however i'll be visiting the Angre Descendants in the beginning of 2009. I'll post a few snaps post my visit to the Angre house along with a few other swords from my collection.


regards,
Bhushan

[Norman McCormick]

Hi All,
I've noticed that the guard has remnants of black paint, or a similar substance, adhering to the inside. I know that the cutlasses issued to the British Navy in the 18/19th Cent. had their hilts painted if they were made of steel rather than brass, an attempt at keeping salt water corrosion at bay. I just wondered if there maybe similarities here. Of course some infantry/cavalry helmets and breastplates were painted black for a similar reason so ?????
I too would really be interested in seeing photographs of the sword that belonged to Admiral Angre.
My thanks to those who have taken an interest.
Regards,
Norman.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi All,
I've noticed that the guard has remnants of black paint, or a similar substance, adhering to the inside. I know that the cutlasses issued to the British Navy in the 18/19th Cent. had their hilts painted if they were made of steel rather than brass, an attempt at keeping salt water corrosion at bay. I just wondered if there maybe similarities here. Of course some infantry/cavalry helmets and breastplates were painted black for a similar reason so ?????

I thought hilts of this type had a padded cushion wrapped around the grip.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent observation Norman ,on the traces of black paint on the hilt, which does seem to suggest some sort of 'japanning' or black varnish as often used on iron hilts with naval connotation. It is interesting though that in the case of Scottish basket hilts of the 18th century particularly, these too were often japanned or russetted to prevent rust or corrosion in the typically damp climate in much of the Highlands.

Teodor, you're right on the usual presence of a pad inside the Hindu basket hilt, typically on the fully dressed examples. Incidentally, 18th century British basket hilts, including Scottish usually seem to have a padded hilt liner as well. As may be expected, these perishable elements usually do not survive, but in rare exceptions.

All best regards,
Jim