A rare khevsur pair

Yannis · 29th March 2005, 09:47 AM

Extremely rare Khevsur sword and kindjal, as a pair.

The sword: Hilt of silver and leather. Blade with 3 fullers, Gurda markings both sides and words. Scabbard leather and brass over wood. Words and ornaments on guard and mounts. Blade length 69cm, total length 82cm.

The kindjal: Before I see this, I didn’t know that Khevsurs had kidjals. If anyone can give an opinion please do it here openly, even if it is bad. Hilt is wood and brass. The blade is armor piercing (more thick close to tip) and it has 2 fullers and a bladesmith mark. Scabbard is leather and brass over wood with same decoration as the sword. Blade length 49cm, total length 32cm.

I will answer price and shipping details by personal message or e-mail only to forum members. I don’t write the price direct because it is possible to post this pair in Ebay later, if no one here wants it. I can send more photos if you need them. Please be informed that price is high. This is not a "bargain".

Rivkin · 29th March 2005, 09:44 PM

Yes, they did have kindjals, but most of the ones I've seen had either chechen or Tiflis made blades. I can't exactly see the blade of this one, so I don't know where it comes from (but if it's a stamp it's most likely Georgia, second possiblity - Dagestan - I hope to be corrected by more knowladgeble people).

Very interesting signature on the sword ! I've seen similar things on chechen blades, may be trophis from khevsurs (I hope real shashka specialists will correct me).

Thank you very much, Yannis for showing it to us - but I'm afraid that there are going to be many answers to your post (which is probably not what you want, since you immideately placed it into "for sale" area).

Yannis · 30th March 2005, 08:54 AM

Rivkin

Thank you for the reply. I didn’t post them in discussion because these have to go and somehow I didn’t find it right to appraise them first and then to sell. We can discuss them here, openly with all their good and possible bad (I can’t find any).

The word on the blade is not Chechen. It is written in an old Georgian alphabet known as Asomtavruli. This is not in use since 10th century. Of course I don’t say that blade is that old, but I believe that as a signature or as “word of power” it survived to the day this sword made.

I wrote I didn’t knew the Khevsurs had kindjals. I meant kindjals dressed like their swords as this one. Here is the bladesmith mark on the kindjal and some writing on the back side of sword guard.

ariel · 30th March 2005, 08:55 PM

Rivkin,
Can you translate?

Rivkin · 31st March 2005, 06:28 PM

1. Wugh, the signature on the blade reads Kharanauli, on the hilt reads "G.Kharanauli, slave of God". I had a big problem trying to translate Kharanauli, until ppls said to me that it's just a family name.

Kindjal seems to me like ones from Tiflis, Georgia, can be the first half of XIX century.

Interesting is that the kindjal's blade is a semi-massproduced item, with the signature inside the stamp most likely done in arabic, but the rest of the set is completely different (most likely come from different masters).

2. I've meant that there are some khevsur trophey blades like this one can find in Checnnja, but some of them will be actually chechen ripoffs.

3. I've never seen a kindjal like this, but I've seen khevsurian kindjals - the locally made kindjals actually tend to be very different (they are often bigger and come with an extremely sharp point - "mail piercing" point).

I've never seen a kindjal in such a "khevsurian" dress.

Rivkin · 31st March 2005, 06:39 PM

And - Kharanauli ends in "uli" - which is typical for Pshavs or Tsova-Tushin(Khevsur's neighbours), but can also belong to a Khevsur.

Yannis · 1st April 2005, 10:04 AM

Rivkin thank you for your comments. I also think that the blade of kindjal and the “dress” have been made from different people.

As for sword’s writing, you are amazing! I could not imagine anyone translate this old Asomtavruli alphabet. It is this alphabet on the blade, isn’t it? Is it in any use today, or it corresponds letter by letter to the modern alphabet?

Rivkin · 2nd April 2005, 07:12 AM

Thanx, Yannis. Yes, it's the old georgian, chosen most likely as a nationalistic gesture. It's not in any use today, but it's simple and I actually had more problems with the hilt - I usually have more problems reading modern alphabets/fonts than with more simple and elegant ancient scripts.

Yannis · 20th July 2005, 01:27 PM

The kindjal, together with a similar sword (a more matching pair) is in Ebay now, looking for a new home.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6547655425

Yannis · 24th July 2005, 08:54 PM

I GOT AN INFORMATION FROM GEORGIA THAT THERE IS A KHEVSUR MASTER WHO MAKE NEW SWORDS ALIKE THE OLD ONES. SOMETIMES HE USE PARTS OF OLD SWORDS. I DONT WANT TO FOOL ANYONE SO I HAVE ADD A NOTICE IN THE AUCTION.

Do you think that the notice is enough or I have to withdraw the entire auction?

Xevsur · 16th December 2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannis

I GOT AN INFORMATION FROM GEORGIA THAT THERE IS A KHEVSUR MASTER WHO MAKE NEW SWORDS ALIKE THE OLD ONES. SOMETIMES HE USE PARTS OF OLD SWORDS. I DONT WANT TO FOOL ANYONE SO I HAVE ADD A NOTICE IN THE AUCTION.

Do you think that the notice is enough or I have to withdraw the entire auction?

I know many copies are made in Georgia but these look like originals to me.

http://www.kaukasus.nl

levani · 7th February 2007, 12:43 PM

sword (dress) is not original, blade as well. for sure. i know few masters in Tbilisi (tiflis) who do the same kind swords and blades. only original is kinjal blade.

whats written on the sword, translation is correct but you will never met that kind of signiture on khevsuri sword.

i'm khevsur

Yannis · 8th February 2007, 03:29 PM

Please do not remind me again this story.

It is almost 2 years ago. I had paid enough in money, time and stress

Welcome to the forum Levani

29th March 2005, 09:47 AM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	A rare khevsur pair Extremely rare Khevsur sword and kindjal, as a pair. The sword: Hilt of silver and leather. Blade with 3 fullers, Gurda markings both sides and words. Scabbard leather and brass over wood. Words and ornaments on guard and mounts. Blade length 69cm, total length 82cm. The kindjal: Before I see this, I didn’t know that Khevsurs had kidjals. If anyone can give an opinion please do it here openly, even if it is bad. Hilt is wood and brass. The blade is armor piercing (more thick close to tip) and it has 2 fullers and a bladesmith mark. Scabbard is leather and brass over wood with same decoration as the sword. Blade length 49cm, total length 32cm. I will answer price and shipping details by personal message or e-mail only to forum members. I don’t write the price direct because it is possible to post this pair in Ebay later, if no one here wants it. I can send more photos if you need them. Please be informed that price is high. This is not a "bargain". Attached Images

29th March 2005, 09:44 PM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Yes, they did have kindjals, but most of the ones I've seen had either chechen or Tiflis made blades. I can't exactly see the blade of this one, so I don't know where it comes from (but if it's a stamp it's most likely Georgia, second possiblity - Dagestan - I hope to be corrected by more knowladgeble people). Very interesting signature on the sword ! I've seen similar things on chechen blades, may be trophis from khevsurs (I hope real shashka specialists will correct me). Thank you very much, Yannis for showing it to us - but I'm afraid that there are going to be many answers to your post (which is probably not what you want, since you immideately placed it into "for sale" area). Last edited by Rivkin; 29th March 2005 at 09:58 PM.

30th March 2005, 08:54 AM	#3
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Rivkin Thank you for the reply. I didn’t post them in discussion because these have to go and somehow I didn’t find it right to appraise them first and then to sell. We can discuss them here, openly with all their good and possible bad (I can’t find any). The word on the blade is not Chechen. It is written in an old Georgian alphabet known as Asomtavruli. This is not in use since 10th century. Of course I don’t say that blade is that old, but I believe that as a signature or as “word of power” it survived to the day this sword made. I wrote I didn’t knew the Khevsurs had kindjals. I meant kindjals dressed like their swords as this one. Here is the bladesmith mark on the kindjal and some writing on the back side of sword guard. Attached Images

20th July 2005, 01:27 PM	#9
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	The kindjal, together with a similar sword (a more matching pair) is in Ebay now, looking for a new home. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6547655425 Last edited by Yannis; 20th July 2005 at 01:59 PM.

7th February 2007, 12:43 PM	#12
levani Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 28	:) :) :) sword (dress) is not original, blade as well. for sure. i know few masters in Tbilisi (tiflis) who do the same kind swords and blades. only original is kinjal blade. whats written on the sword, translation is correct but you will never met that kind of signiture on khevsuri sword. i'm khevsur

30th March 2005, 08:55 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Rivkin, Can you translate?

31st March 2005, 06:28 PM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	1. Wugh, the signature on the blade reads Kharanauli, on the hilt reads "G.Kharanauli, slave of God". I had a big problem trying to translate Kharanauli, until ppls said to me that it's just a family name. Kindjal seems to me like ones from Tiflis, Georgia, can be the first half of XIX century. Interesting is that the kindjal's blade is a semi-massproduced item, with the signature inside the stamp most likely done in arabic, but the rest of the set is completely different (most likely come from different masters). 2. I've meant that there are some khevsur trophey blades like this one can find in Checnnja, but some of them will be actually chechen ripoffs. 3. I've never seen a kindjal like this, but I've seen khevsurian kindjals - the locally made kindjals actually tend to be very different (they are often bigger and come with an extremely sharp point - "mail piercing" point). I've never seen a kindjal in such a "khevsurian" dress.

31st March 2005, 06:39 PM	#6
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	And - Kharanauli ends in "uli" - which is typical for Pshavs or Tsova-Tushin(Khevsur's neighbours), but can also belong to a Khevsur.

1st April 2005, 10:04 AM	#7
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Rivkin thank you for your comments. I also think that the blade of kindjal and the “dress” have been made from different people. As for sword’s writing, you are amazing! I could not imagine anyone translate this old Asomtavruli alphabet. It is this alphabet on the blade, isn’t it? Is it in any use today, or it corresponds letter by letter to the modern alphabet?

2nd April 2005, 07:12 AM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Thanx, Yannis. Yes, it's the old georgian, chosen most likely as a nationalistic gesture. It's not in any use today, but it's simple and I actually had more problems with the hilt - I usually have more problems reading modern alphabets/fonts than with more simple and elegant ancient scripts.

24th July 2005, 08:54 PM	#10
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I GOT AN INFORMATION FROM GEORGIA THAT THERE IS A KHEVSUR MASTER WHO MAKE NEW SWORDS ALIKE THE OLD ONES. SOMETIMES HE USE PARTS OF OLD SWORDS. I DONT WANT TO FOOL ANYONE SO I HAVE ADD A NOTICE IN THE AUCTION. Do you think that the notice is enough or I have to withdraw the entire auction?

8th February 2007, 03:29 PM	#13
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Please do not remind me again this story. It is almost 2 years ago. I had paid enough in money, time and stress Welcome to the forum Levani