My father bought these

johan · 9th June 2008, 11:00 PM

32 years ago.

Story goes like this:
My father wich is swedish was working abroud alot before i was born.
In the 70´s he was stationed in Bahrain in the persian gulf for 6 months.
Before he went back home he just bought random stuff, he never wanted to go back to that place so he had to spend all the dinars he had left. He bought these weapons from a dealer with the only knowledge that they were from a Malaysian civilwar, I actually just recent discovered that they were called Kerises.
He was also told that the sword to the left was the most valueble one since it was so old.
Unfortunantly i dont have any other info, i would like to hear what you think!
Time era? Is there any value in these items?

http://flickr.com/photos/27497784@N0...7605522171850/

Thank you!
/ Johan

edited by Rick

johan · 18th June 2008, 02:19 PM

Hi again ! I´ve been anxious to hear if there was someone who had any information about the kerises

Like i said before i just recently discovered the kerisworld and i have no idea how old they can bee or if they are of any value. Any info would be great.
My father isn´t a collector he have just keept them in a closet for all these years.. I don´t really know where to turn? Is there any experts on the subject that i can turn to, because im pretty sure there arent any in sweden?
I´ve been fascinated by the daggers since i was a child. I´m 28 now.. Twice we have taken them to different antiqedealers but they have never seen anything like it..
I´ve had them in the back of my head forever so the feeling when i saw a keris on the internet for the first time was fantastic and then i ended up here.
Thanks in advance!
/ Johan

David · 18th June 2008, 03:16 PM

Hi Johan, welcome to the forum. These are indeed keris. We do not give value assessments on this forum, but we can discuss everything else about these keris.

They do appear to be antiques, but they are not particularly uncommon so i think you just must have brought them to the wrong antique dealers.

VVV · 18th June 2008, 04:06 PM

Johan,

I don't know which city you live in but it's not that uncommon to find Javanese keris, like yours, here in Sweden.
I am also aware of 4 "hard-core" Swedish collectors with 50+ keris in their collections.
If you check the large biannual weapon auctions you will always find keris being offered

Michael

Alam Shah · 18th June 2008, 04:26 PM

Hi, all the 3 kerises are Javanese... I doubt that it is used in the Malaysian civilwar (I don't recall there is one(?)).

David · 18th June 2008, 08:18 PM

Good point Shahrial, i am not sure what war he refers to. The one one on the left in the grouping might be from Madura, or it could be East Jawa.
BTW, all your hilts are turned the wrong way. They should be turned 180 degrees around.

johan · 18th June 2008, 11:36 PM

Thank you very much for helping out all of you!

That sounds very interesting Michael. Im living close to the capital.
About the Malaysian civilwar, i´ve searched the net for it ofcourse but like you all said it doesnt seem to have been one

I had to mention it because thats the information my father got from the dealer in bahrain. He was a friend from work that collected antique weapons.

My father is kind of special.. He just bought these without getting any information really.. I´ve been trying to make him remembering everything the dealer said.. But its kind of impossible more than:
1. Malasian civilwar
2. The sword "the non keris looking" was very old and valuable.

Kind of frustrating that he don´t know what he bought but thats just him.

Have the javanese keris a special look from the other types? And can you determin age by look or have they looked the same for centuries?

Thank you!

David · 19th June 2008, 01:03 AM

Johan, keris from certain regions can be IDed from a number of factors. Most obvious is the form of dress (sheath and hilt), but the blades themselves take on different characteristic as well depending on the origin. See these difference generally takes looking at a lot of different keris for many years.
Also it is easier to ID origin and age with a blade in hand. Photographs can be hard to read at times.
I think it would probably be safe to say all 3 of your keris are at least 100 yrs. old, but they could be older.
Keris are catagorized in many ways: origin, kingdom (period), dhapur (blade profile), pamor (the forged patterns on the blade), etc.
One of your keris (the last close-up shown) has a dhapur called Kebo Teki which is evident from the elongated front area at the base of the blade. Can you see how that area is longer than on your other 2 blades and also has a carved feature that resembles an elephant head/trunk?
BTW, your Kebo Teki blade is in a Surakarta Ladrang (formal) dress while the other 2 are in gayaman (everyday) dress. The one on the left is either Madura or East Jawa (they are very closely connected) and the other is Dyogyakarta.
Hope that helps you some.
The other sword is from Africa i believe and if you post that over on the main forum, along with that axe, i am sure you will get some interesting responses on those.

johan · 19th June 2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Johan, keris from certain regions can be IDed from a number of factors. Most obvious is the form of dress (sheath and hilt), but the blades themselves take on different characteristic as well depending on the origin. See these difference generally takes looking at a lot of different keris for many years.
Also it is easier to ID origin and age with a blade in hand. Photographs can be hard to read at times.
I think it would probably be safe to say all 3 of your keris are at least 100 yrs. old, but they could be older.
Keris are catagorized in many ways: origin, kingdom (period), dhapur (blade profile), pamor (the forged patterns on the blade), etc.
One of your keris (the last close-up shown) has a dhapur called Kebo Teki which is evident from the elongated front area at the base of the blade. Can you see how that area is longer than on your other 2 blades and also has a carved feature that resembles an elephant head/trunk?
BTW, your Kebo Teki blade is in a Surakarta Ladrang (formal) dress while the other 2 are in gayaman (everyday) dress. The one on the left is either Madura or East Jawa (they are very closely connected) and the other is Dyogyakarta.
Hope that helps you some.
The other sword is from Africa i believe and if you post that over on the main forum, along with that axe, i am sure you will get some interesting responses on those.

Thank you very much David!
You´re most helpfull. I´m searching the internet right now for more about keris.
Cheers!

David · 19th June 2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan

I´m searching the internet right now for more about keris.
Cheers!

Once you get an idea of what you are looking for try the search function on this site as well. A search for "Kebo Teki" for instance will yield to 2 additional keris threads showing examples of that dhaper.

9th June 2008, 11:00 PM	#1
johan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4	My father bought these 32 years ago. Story goes like this: My father wich is swedish was working abroud alot before i was born. In the 70´s he was stationed in Bahrain in the persian gulf for 6 months. Before he went back home he just bought random stuff, he never wanted to go back to that place so he had to spend all the dinars he had left. He bought these weapons from a dealer with the only knowledge that they were from a Malaysian civilwar, I actually just recent discovered that they were called Kerises. He was also told that the sword to the left was the most valueble one since it was so old. Unfortunantly i dont have any other info, i would like to hear what you think! Time era? Is there any value in these items? http://flickr.com/photos/27497784@N0...7605522171850/ Thank you! / Johan edited by Rick

18th June 2008, 03:16 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Hi Johan, welcome to the forum. These are indeed keris. We do not give value assessments on this forum, but we can discuss everything else about these keris. They do appear to be antiques, but they are not particularly uncommon so i think you just must have brought them to the wrong antique dealers. Attached Images

18th June 2008, 02:19 PM	#2
johan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4	Hi again ! I´ve been anxious to hear if there was someone who had any information about the kerises Like i said before i just recently discovered the kerisworld and i have no idea how old they can bee or if they are of any value. Any info would be great. My father isn´t a collector he have just keept them in a closet for all these years.. I don´t really know where to turn? Is there any experts on the subject that i can turn to, because im pretty sure there arent any in sweden? I´ve been fascinated by the daggers since i was a child. I´m 28 now.. Twice we have taken them to different antiqedealers but they have never seen anything like it.. I´ve had them in the back of my head forever so the feeling when i saw a keris on the internet for the first time was fantastic and then i ended up here. Thanks in advance! / Johan

18th June 2008, 04:06 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Johan, I don't know which city you live in but it's not that uncommon to find Javanese keris, like yours, here in Sweden. I am also aware of 4 "hard-core" Swedish collectors with 50+ keris in their collections. If you check the large biannual weapon auctions you will always find keris being offered Michael

18th June 2008, 04:26 PM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi, all the 3 kerises are Javanese... I doubt that it is used in the Malaysian civilwar (I don't recall there is one(?)).

18th June 2008, 08:18 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Good point Shahrial, i am not sure what war he refers to. The one one on the left in the grouping might be from Madura, or it could be East Jawa. BTW, all your hilts are turned the wrong way. They should be turned 180 degrees around.

18th June 2008, 11:36 PM	#7
johan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4	Thank you very much for helping out all of you! That sounds very interesting Michael. Im living close to the capital. About the Malaysian civilwar, i´ve searched the net for it ofcourse but like you all said it doesnt seem to have been one I had to mention it because thats the information my father got from the dealer in bahrain. He was a friend from work that collected antique weapons. My father is kind of special.. He just bought these without getting any information really.. I´ve been trying to make him remembering everything the dealer said.. But its kind of impossible more than: 1. Malasian civilwar 2. The sword "the non keris looking" was very old and valuable. Kind of frustrating that he don´t know what he bought but thats just him. Have the javanese keris a special look from the other types? And can you determin age by look or have they looked the same for centuries? Thank you!

19th June 2008, 01:03 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Johan, keris from certain regions can be IDed from a number of factors. Most obvious is the form of dress (sheath and hilt), but the blades themselves take on different characteristic as well depending on the origin. See these difference generally takes looking at a lot of different keris for many years. Also it is easier to ID origin and age with a blade in hand. Photographs can be hard to read at times. I think it would probably be safe to say all 3 of your keris are at least 100 yrs. old, but they could be older. Keris are catagorized in many ways: origin, kingdom (period), dhapur (blade profile), pamor (the forged patterns on the blade), etc. One of your keris (the last close-up shown) has a dhapur called Kebo Teki which is evident from the elongated front area at the base of the blade. Can you see how that area is longer than on your other 2 blades and also has a carved feature that resembles an elephant head/trunk? BTW, your Kebo Teki blade is in a Surakarta Ladrang (formal) dress while the other 2 are in gayaman (everyday) dress. The one on the left is either Madura or East Jawa (they are very closely connected) and the other is Dyogyakarta. Hope that helps you some. The other sword is from Africa i believe and if you post that over on the main forum, along with that axe, i am sure you will get some interesting responses on those.