A couple of new ones for me...........

knife7knut · 31st March 2008, 04:14 AM

Hello all:
Ray Smith here.I posted this over in the general forum in error(haven't been on in awhile)and David referred me here.Hope this is the correct area to post.
I came by these two today for a very reasonable amount of money.Normally my edged tool collecting is more toward the unusual of late and I rarely come across items such as these.
Upon examination I noted that the ferrule(my terminology;I apologize for not knowing the correct one)between the blade and handle was installed upside down and then realized that whomever had done this had also managed to install the handle upside down as well! also someone had inadvertantly tried to put the incorrect knife in the sheath.
I attempted to gently remove the handle using a small hammer handle to strike the back of the blade whilst holding the handle in hand but to no avail.I'm hoping the genius who perpetrated this didn't use an adhesive to secure the handle.
Anyway I was going to take some closeup shots outside today but there was a rain/snow mix falling so that idea was shelved.I will try and supply some better photographs tomorrow.I tried using a flash as I couldn't get any decent detail without it.What appears to be paint in the handle carving is actually dust illuminated by the flash.
So herewith I offer up these pictures for your consideration.I am essentially interested in determining their approximate age;I am not really interested in a value as they will be staying with me.Thank you for your time.
Cheers
Ray Smith

Newsteel · 3rd April 2008, 08:11 AM

Hi Ray,

Identifying the keris age (tangguh) is always a tricky thing. One would only guess the possible age. There will definitely a tell-tale sign from where and which period the keris was made.

As for your keris, best that you clean the blade and etch it. My guess it would be mid to late 19th century.

PenangsangII · 3rd April 2008, 09:15 AM

Hello Ray,

Try heating the base of the blade using candle light 1-2 minutes and gently twist the ferrule and the handle. Normally, even epoxy glue will melt so easily.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd April 2008, 10:44 AM

Yes, a candle is safe, but it will take a lot longer than a couple of minutes.

I suggest that you hold the blade is your hand a few inches away from the area where you apply the heat, and when it gets too hot to hold, try gently twisting back and forth to free the hilt.

There are several possibilities with an old stuck hilt. It might be epoxy , in which case the melting point is likely to be greater than 200 degrees centigrade, which is the most common spec for most common epoxy adhesives. It might be an old fashioned natural resin, which seems to melt a bit easier than epoxy, or it might be rusted on. If it is rusted on you definitely run the risk of breaking the tang, and you are unlikely to know that the tang is about to break until it does. This is a disappointing experience, but it is something that can be fixed no matter how little of the tang is left. Consider this:- if the tang was so rusted that it broke, it needed to be repaired anyway.

If the hilt is really stubborn, it can help if you repeatedly heat it, try to turn it off, allow it cool down, and heat again. Just do it once a day until it lets go.

cahaya · 5th April 2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Hi Ray,

Identifying the keris age (tangguh) is always a tricky thing. One would only guess the possible age. There will definitely a tell-tale sign from where and which period the keris was made.

.

Please...explain.. what yu say about tricky thing

David · 5th April 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cahaya

Please...explain.. what yu say about tricky thing

I wouldn't assume to know exactly what Newsreel meant by this....but i certainly would agree with it.

Especially true making judgements from internet photos i would say.
And as has been stated on this forum again and again tannguh is a system meant to be applied to a relatively small group of keris. Even then, by it's own definition, it is still just an estimate and one which even true experts in the field can argue and differ on. So yes, i would call it "tricky"....

31st March 2008, 04:14 AM	#1
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	A couple of new ones for me........... Hello all: Ray Smith here.I posted this over in the general forum in error(haven't been on in awhile)and David referred me here.Hope this is the correct area to post. I came by these two today for a very reasonable amount of money.Normally my edged tool collecting is more toward the unusual of late and I rarely come across items such as these. Upon examination I noted that the ferrule(my terminology;I apologize for not knowing the correct one)between the blade and handle was installed upside down and then realized that whomever had done this had also managed to install the handle upside down as well! also someone had inadvertantly tried to put the incorrect knife in the sheath. I attempted to gently remove the handle using a small hammer handle to strike the back of the blade whilst holding the handle in hand but to no avail.I'm hoping the genius who perpetrated this didn't use an adhesive to secure the handle. Anyway I was going to take some closeup shots outside today but there was a rain/snow mix falling so that idea was shelved.I will try and supply some better photographs tomorrow.I tried using a flash as I couldn't get any decent detail without it.What appears to be paint in the handle carving is actually dust illuminated by the flash. So herewith I offer up these pictures for your consideration.I am essentially interested in determining their approximate age;I am not really interested in a value as they will be staying with me.Thank you for your time. Cheers Ray Smith Attached Images

3rd April 2008, 08:11 AM	#2
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Hi Ray, Identifying the keris age (tangguh) is always a tricky thing. One would only guess the possible age. There will definitely a tell-tale sign from where and which period the keris was made. As for your keris, best that you clean the blade and etch it. My guess it would be mid to late 19th century.

3rd April 2008, 09:15 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Hello Ray, Try heating the base of the blade using candle light 1-2 minutes and gently twist the ferrule and the handle. Normally, even epoxy glue will melt so easily.

3rd April 2008, 10:44 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, a candle is safe, but it will take a lot longer than a couple of minutes. I suggest that you hold the blade is your hand a few inches away from the area where you apply the heat, and when it gets too hot to hold, try gently twisting back and forth to free the hilt. There are several possibilities with an old stuck hilt. It might be epoxy , in which case the melting point is likely to be greater than 200 degrees centigrade, which is the most common spec for most common epoxy adhesives. It might be an old fashioned natural resin, which seems to melt a bit easier than epoxy, or it might be rusted on. If it is rusted on you definitely run the risk of breaking the tang, and you are unlikely to know that the tang is about to break until it does. This is a disappointing experience, but it is something that can be fixed no matter how little of the tang is left. Consider this:- if the tang was so rusted that it broke, it needed to be repaired anyway. If the hilt is really stubborn, it can help if you repeatedly heat it, try to turn it off, allow it cool down, and heat again. Just do it once a day until it lets go.