A strange sword on eBay

Tatyana Dianova · 5th February 2008, 09:18 PM

I'm pretty sure that this one is NOT a Kastane. It is something more SE Asian, and seems to have some age to it. Did anybody seen something similar???

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=022

Mark · 5th February 2008, 09:25 PM

It looks like a kastane to me.

What makes you think it is not? The elephant head?

Tim Simmons · 5th February 2008, 09:25 PM

Looks like some sort of Malayan parang nabur if that is the right spelling. I have a heavy Malaysian machete with a very stylized version of hilt but it is clearly the same beast. Others will be able to name this form of hilt. At that Price I think I did fairly well in my last ebay adventure.

spiral · 5th February 2008, 09:27 PM

Yes I agree Tatyana, Id guess its some form of Parang?

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 5th February 2008, 10:05 PM

The image host I normally use is under maintenance so perhaps this might work.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5174/nabur002fa5.jpg

TVV · 5th February 2008, 10:09 PM

Isn't this the mythical Makara? To me it also looks like a parang and if I am not mistaken, the blade has pamor.

RSWORD · 5th February 2008, 11:54 PM

Tim is absolutely correct in that this is a Malaysian parang and a rather nice one.

VANDOO · 6th February 2008, 12:05 AM

I HAVE SEEN MANY VARIATIONS OF THESE KINDS OF PARANGS ATTRIBUTED TO MANY DIFFERENT AREAS, MALAYSIA,INDONESIA,CEYLON,AND THAILAND.
I HAVE NO WAY TO BE ABSOLUTELY SURE BUT IT LOOKS LIKE MALAYSIA AS MY FIRST CHOICE. THE FORM IS NOT THE TRADITIONAL KASTANE BUT IT STILL COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THERE WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW IF THE SELLER HAS PROVENANCE OR WAS JUST GUESSING.

I WILL TRY AND ADD SOME PICTURES OF THE TRADITIONAL FORM OF KSATANE.

VANDOO · 6th February 2008, 12:26 AM

I AM INCLUDEING PIC'S OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE I HAVE SEEN ON EBAY THAT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO CEYLON/SIRI LANKA. I HAVE SEEN OTHERS WITH A ELEPHANT HEAD POMMEL BUT HAVE NO PICTURES.

ariel · 6th February 2008, 01:41 AM

I thik Tatyana has a very valid point: it does not look like a typical Kastane, more like Parang Nabur or something similar.
The answer, of course, is in the provenance: if the seller can present strong evidence of the original Ceylonese origin, we shall have to rethink our definitions.
Somehow, I think we are seeing a Parang.
Good call, Tatyana!

Jim McDougall · 6th February 2008, 05:39 AM

Parang sounds likely, in fact I completely agree with Tim, TVV, Spiral, Rsword and Vandoo with this attribution as well as Ariel.

I am inclined to doubt the 'kastane' attribution or suggested provenance, so I think our established definition of these Sinhalese swords will remain sound.
The zoomorphic hilt with the makara is most interesting, and does resemble those seen on the kastane, however the guard has no resemblance to the profusely ornate and developed form on these distinct swords. It seems that the animal image on the kastane hilt is in many cases interpreted as being a lion head, with that representation associated with the ancestral legends of the early kingdom of Sinhala (Sinha =lion), though many of the heads do look more like makara.

The hilt form noted in Stone as parang nabor have animal head pommels and varying forms of knuckleguard type hilts. While these hilts are noted as Malayan, it seems to me that the silverwork in the hilt may be Indonesian, as well as the pamor in the blade.

Mytribalworld · 6th February 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Parang sounds likely, in fact I completely agree with Tim, TVV, Spiral, Rsword and Vandoo with this attribution as well as Ariel.

I am inclined to doubt the 'kastane' attribution or suggested provenance, so I think our established definition of these Sinhalese swords will remain sound.
The zoomorphic hilt with the makara is most interesting, and does resemble those seen on the kastane, however the guard has no resemblance to the profusely ornate and developed form on these distinct swords. It seems that the animal image on the kastane hilt is in many cases interpreted as being a lion head, with that representation associated with the ancestral legends of the early kingdom of Sinhala (Sinha =lion), though many of the heads do look more like makara.

The hilt form noted in Stone as parang nabor have animal head pommels and varying forms of knuckleguard type hilts. While these hilts are noted as Malayan, it seems to me that the silverwork in the hilt may be Indonesian, as well as the pamor in the blade.

I think its from Sumatra ( no proof).
The guard is not the style they used in Borneo on the parang nabur but on Sumatra they do.
I found a Ivory handled sword ( mandailing) on the site of the Leiden museum what has something in common with the hilt on the sword on ebay.
See the upward curling nose, the plce of the eye and the similar grooves at the beginning of the hilt.
Also there are some minagkabau swords who has this type of thin decorated handles.This could be a mix between them?

Arjan.

Henk · 6th February 2008, 10:05 PM

The hilt looks like that of a sumatran pedang. Sumatra is very likely. I think it is a sumatran parang or pedang.

VANDOO · 7th February 2008, 06:19 AM

HERE IS ANOTHER VARIATION SAID TO HAVE COME FROM CEYLON/ SIRI LANKA VERY SIMULAR TO THE OTHER ONE BUT LOOKS MORE RECENT AND NOT AS WELL MADE. I HAVE SEEN SOMETHING SIMULAR BUT WITH A DRAGONS HEAD CARRIED BY THE INDONESIAN TROOPS OCCUPING AMBON IN THE MOLUCCAS. SO PERHAPS THESE ARE A TYPE OF MILITARY ISSUE DAGGER.

THEY KIND OF TELL ME MADE IN INDIA ,AFTER ALL CEYLON IS VERY CLOSE TO INDIA SO SIMULAR WORK IS PROBABLY BEING DONE IN BOTH COUNTRYS TODAY.

5th February 2008, 09:18 PM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	A strange sword on eBay I'm pretty sure that this one is NOT a Kastane. It is something more SE Asian, and seems to have some age to it. Did anybody seen something similar??? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=022

6th February 2008, 12:05 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE SEEN MANY VARIATIONS OF THESE KINDS OF PARANGS ATTRIBUTED TO MANY DIFFERENT AREAS, MALAYSIA,INDONESIA,CEYLON,AND THAILAND. I HAVE NO WAY TO BE ABSOLUTELY SURE BUT IT LOOKS LIKE MALAYSIA AS MY FIRST CHOICE. THE FORM IS NOT THE TRADITIONAL KASTANE BUT IT STILL COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THERE WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW IF THE SELLER HAS PROVENANCE OR WAS JUST GUESSING. I WILL TRY AND ADD SOME PICTURES OF THE TRADITIONAL FORM OF KSATANE. Attached Images

6th February 2008, 12:26 AM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM INCLUDEING PIC'S OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE I HAVE SEEN ON EBAY THAT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO CEYLON/SIRI LANKA. I HAVE SEEN OTHERS WITH A ELEPHANT HEAD POMMEL BUT HAVE NO PICTURES. Attached Images

7th February 2008, 06:19 AM	#14
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE IS ANOTHER VARIATION SAID TO HAVE COME FROM CEYLON/ SIRI LANKA VERY SIMULAR TO THE OTHER ONE BUT LOOKS MORE RECENT AND NOT AS WELL MADE. I HAVE SEEN SOMETHING SIMULAR BUT WITH A DRAGONS HEAD CARRIED BY THE INDONESIAN TROOPS OCCUPING AMBON IN THE MOLUCCAS. SO PERHAPS THESE ARE A TYPE OF MILITARY ISSUE DAGGER. THEY KIND OF TELL ME MADE IN INDIA ,AFTER ALL CEYLON IS VERY CLOSE TO INDIA SO SIMULAR WORK IS PROBABLY BEING DONE IN BOTH COUNTRYS TODAY. Attached Images

5th February 2008, 09:25 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	It looks like a kastane to me. What makes you think it is not? The elephant head?

5th February 2008, 09:25 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Looks like some sort of Malayan parang nabur if that is the right spelling. I have a heavy Malaysian machete with a very stylized version of hilt but it is clearly the same beast. Others will be able to name this form of hilt. At that Price I think I did fairly well in my last ebay adventure.

5th February 2008, 09:27 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yes I agree Tatyana, Id guess its some form of Parang? Spiral

5th February 2008, 10:05 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The image host I normally use is under maintenance so perhaps this might work. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5174/nabur002fa5.jpg

5th February 2008, 10:09 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Isn't this the mythical Makara? To me it also looks like a parang and if I am not mistaken, the blade has pamor.

5th February 2008, 11:54 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Tim is absolutely correct in that this is a Malaysian parang and a rather nice one.

6th February 2008, 01:41 AM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I thik Tatyana has a very valid point: it does not look like a typical Kastane, more like Parang Nabur or something similar. The answer, of course, is in the provenance: if the seller can present strong evidence of the original Ceylonese origin, we shall have to rethink our definitions. Somehow, I think we are seeing a Parang. Good call, Tatyana!

6th February 2008, 05:39 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Parang sounds likely, in fact I completely agree with Tim, TVV, Spiral, Rsword and Vandoo with this attribution as well as Ariel. I am inclined to doubt the 'kastane' attribution or suggested provenance, so I think our established definition of these Sinhalese swords will remain sound. The zoomorphic hilt with the makara is most interesting, and does resemble those seen on the kastane, however the guard has no resemblance to the profusely ornate and developed form on these distinct swords. It seems that the animal image on the kastane hilt is in many cases interpreted as being a lion head, with that representation associated with the ancestral legends of the early kingdom of Sinhala (Sinha =lion), though many of the heads do look more like makara. The hilt form noted in Stone as parang nabor have animal head pommels and varying forms of knuckleguard type hilts. While these hilts are noted as Malayan, it seems to me that the silverwork in the hilt may be Indonesian, as well as the pamor in the blade.

6th February 2008, 10:05 PM	#13
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	The hilt looks like that of a sumatran pedang. Sumatra is very likely. I think it is a sumatran parang or pedang.