Damascus Tulwars

ariel · 1st July 2007, 08:48 PM

Just to show ...
Two Tulwars, one with a brass or copper ( the metal seems quite red) handle covered with thin layer of gold ( not much left of it) and wootz blade.
Another with serrated edges and mechanical damascus.

katana · 1st July 2007, 09:01 PM

NICE

Flavio · 1st July 2007, 09:06 PM

Hi Ariel, very nice, but what do you mean with "mechanical damascus"? Thank you

ariel · 1st July 2007, 09:36 PM

Mechanical damascus means that the blade was constructed from several pieces of steel: softer and harder ( high carbon). These were arranged, twisted, bent etc to result in a layered pattern.
Wootz is crystalline damascus: inherently exhibiting fine pattern with proper heating/cooling.
Bladesmiths on the Forum: am I wrong?

Richard Furrer · 1st July 2007, 09:50 PM

Hello All,
Yes indeed.
Mechanical damask is better called pattern-welded and is made from several pieces of material forge welded together. This can be bars or steel or a consolidated bloom. the billet (stack of welded pieces) can be manipulated in may ways to alter the pattern..twisting, folding, drilling etc to show the underlying layers. The material in this process does not become liquid, though slag and flux can be liquid and are forced away from the steel with hammer blows.

Crucible steel (like wootz) is made liquid (melted) in a container of some sort and the resulting cooled mixture is called an ingot and is then forged into a blade with no welding.
The surface pattern seen is the result of the chemistry within the solidified ingot.

Ric

Flavio · 1st July 2007, 10:02 PM

Thank you for your answers

Anyway Mechanical damascus doesn't have anything to do with the use of machineries? It's still handmade

ALEX · 2nd July 2007, 01:11 PM

Flavio, "mechanical damascus" is produced by mixing several different steels together. The "true damascus" aka "oriental damascus" or "wootz" is made of just one special steel. Both mechanical and wootz steels need to be manually forged, so "mechanical" just means "not natural" in a sense

Flavio · 2nd July 2007, 05:04 PM

Thank you Alex

josh stout · 2nd July 2007, 05:31 PM

What is the last picture showing? The pattern is very different and looks more like wootz.
Josh

ariel · 2nd July 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

What is the last picture showing? The pattern is very different and looks more like wootz.
Josh

That's true. It belongs to the sword with the "golden handle" and I clearly said that it was wootz.
The serrated one is mechanical.

ALEX · 3rd July 2007, 08:58 AM

Flavio,
Here is a link which explains it little better:
http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/quest.htm

Flavio · 3rd July 2007, 05:08 PM

Thanks again, Alex

Richard Furrer · 3rd July 2007, 07:29 PM

Hello All,
I would recomend this article by Kevin Cashen:
http://swordforum.com/forge/roadtodamascus.html

Kevin is a talented smith with a genuine interest in history and science.

I would also recommend this PDF file:
"Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel", 200 + pages, By John D. Verhoeven Emeritus Professor, Iowa State University, March 2005

http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/7-5.pdf
It is a large file of 8.1 Megs

Perhapse the best publication on the subject of steel and blades.

Ric

josh stout · 3rd July 2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

That's true. It belongs to the sword with the "golden handle" and I clearly said that it was wootz.
The serrated one is mechanical.

So you did, I guess my eye skipped over that part.

They are both lovely and the two blades are a striking contrast.
Josh

1st July 2007, 08:48 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Damascus Tulwars Just to show ... Two Tulwars, one with a brass or copper ( the metal seems quite red) handle covered with thin layer of gold ( not much left of it) and wootz blade. Another with serrated edges and mechanical damascus. Attached Images

1st July 2007, 09:01 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	NICE

1st July 2007, 09:06 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Ariel, very nice, but what do you mean with "mechanical damascus"? Thank you

1st July 2007, 09:36 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mechanical damascus means that the blade was constructed from several pieces of steel: softer and harder ( high carbon). These were arranged, twisted, bent etc to result in a layered pattern. Wootz is crystalline damascus: inherently exhibiting fine pattern with proper heating/cooling. Bladesmiths on the Forum: am I wrong?

1st July 2007, 09:50 PM	#5
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	Hello All, Yes indeed. Mechanical damask is better called pattern-welded and is made from several pieces of material forge welded together. This can be bars or steel or a consolidated bloom. the billet (stack of welded pieces) can be manipulated in may ways to alter the pattern..twisting, folding, drilling etc to show the underlying layers. The material in this process does not become liquid, though slag and flux can be liquid and are forced away from the steel with hammer blows. Crucible steel (like wootz) is made liquid (melted) in a container of some sort and the resulting cooled mixture is called an ingot and is then forged into a blade with no welding. The surface pattern seen is the result of the chemistry within the solidified ingot. Ric

1st July 2007, 10:02 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you for your answers Anyway Mechanical damascus doesn't have anything to do with the use of machineries? It's still handmade

2nd July 2007, 01:11 PM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Flavio, "mechanical damascus" is produced by mixing several different steels together. The "true damascus" aka "oriental damascus" or "wootz" is made of just one special steel. Both mechanical and wootz steels need to be manually forged, so "mechanical" just means "not natural" in a sense

2nd July 2007, 05:04 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Alex

2nd July 2007, 05:31 PM	#9
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	What is the last picture showing? The pattern is very different and looks more like wootz. Josh

3rd July 2007, 08:58 AM	#11
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Flavio, Here is a link which explains it little better: http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/quest.htm

3rd July 2007, 05:08 PM	#12
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thanks again, Alex

3rd July 2007, 07:29 PM	#13
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	Hello All, I would recomend this article by Kevin Cashen: http://swordforum.com/forge/roadtodamascus.html Kevin is a talented smith with a genuine interest in history and science. I would also recommend this PDF file: "Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel", 200 + pages, By John D. Verhoeven Emeritus Professor, Iowa State University, March 2005 http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/7-5.pdf It is a large file of 8.1 Megs Perhapse the best publication on the subject of steel and blades. Ric