19th Century Manding Dagger For Comment?

Lew · 28th May 2007, 08:37 PM

Picked this one up today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290119817604

Lew

Tim Simmons · 28th May 2007, 09:00 PM

I was watching this. Nice knife. I have to say I was a little put off by the stated postal cost for within the UK.

Flavio · 28th May 2007, 09:02 PM

Nice example of a quite rare dagger

Lew · 28th May 2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I was watching this. Nice knife. I have to say I was a little put off by the stated postal cost for within the UK.

Tim

I paid 7.50 pounds for shipping to the USA sounds ok to me unless he wanted that much for local shipping also?

Lew

Tim Simmons · 28th May 2007, 09:24 PM

Lew it is a really nice buy. The seller wanted £7 post local. Also somebody like you might have push me up to my maximum. I have my eyes on something else

.

Ferguson · 28th May 2007, 10:10 PM

Nice Lew!

Steve

CharlesS · 29th May 2007, 05:02 AM

Sweet!....Now my ivory hilted Sudanese piece is safe for a while!!

Very nice piece, indeed.

Lew · 9th June 2007, 06:06 PM

The dagger arrived today. The blade seems to have been made from an old machete which was a and still is a common practice in Africa. Really nice work on the blade hilt and pommel it exhibits a lovely old patina.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 9th June 2007, 06:34 PM

I agree with the other observations on this piece....very nice!!

What factors identify this dagger as Manding? The sabres are of course instantly recognizable, but not as familiar with the daggers. Is the tassle at the tip a Manding feature?

I always wonder about the large X marking also. It seems that a key component of folk religion in material cultural symbolism in North Africa pertains to the four directions, four corners of the earth etc. Is that the likely case here? I have seen the X on a scabbard on one of those mysterious 'Berber' sabres and recalling that prompted that question.

Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 9th June 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I agree with the other observations on this piece....very nice!!

What factors identify this dagger as Manding? The sabres are of course instantly recognizable, but not as familiar with the daggers. Is the tassle at the tip a Manding feature?

Best regards,
Jim

Jim

I believe what identifies these more than anything else is the leather work on the scabbard. After seeing a number of fine examples at museums,shows and in books you just develope an eye for the finer details. Although the leather work on the older swords and daggers (19th century pieces) seems to be of a finer quality than those of the early to mid 20th century at least in my opinion. Below is a good quality 19th century sword with similar leather work quality as found on the above dagger.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 9th June 2007, 09:20 PM

Hi Lew,
Thank you so much for the info on that and the photo of the sabre. I see what you mean on the leatherwork, which really is excellent, and the ribs seem consistant. I think maybe the fact that earlier work in the 19th c. may have been produced more singularly than the stepped up production and quality diffused by volume in the 20th. They dont make nuthin' like they used to !!

I recall years ago talking with a gentleman who was Fulani from Guinea and showing him a photo of a Manding sabre, and asked what name it was called by. He told me they called it a 'kota', which is probably some more generic term in Fulani, but thought it may be applicable as the Fulani are of course established in Mali and Manding regions.

Any thoughts on the inscribed X ? Is the tassle a feature confined to the Manding ?

All the best,
Jim

Lew · 9th June 2007, 11:53 PM

Jim

X is a line art african symbol sign from the ivory coast meaning life everlasting. The ivory coast (officially the republic of cote d`ivoire) is adjacent to mali, burkina faso, liberia and guinea. I guess that would be a good symbol to have on a weapon when you are going into battle

http://www.fotosearch.com/eclecticol...ols/ECC115/17/

Lew

Jim McDougall · 19th June 2007, 05:22 AM

Hi Lew,
Outstanding info on the X marking, thank you so much!! It seems I have seen similar symbol on the scabbard of one of those so called 'Berber' sabres.
All the best,
Jim

28th May 2007, 08:37 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	19th Century Manding Dagger For Comment? Picked this one up today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290119817604 Lew Attached Images

9th June 2007, 06:06 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The dagger arrived today. The blade seems to have been made from an old machete which was a and still is a common practice in Africa. Really nice work on the blade hilt and pommel it exhibits a lovely old patina. Lew Attached Images

9th June 2007, 11:53 PM	#12
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jim X is a line art african symbol sign from the ivory coast meaning life everlasting. The ivory coast (officially the republic of cote d`ivoire) is adjacent to mali, burkina faso, liberia and guinea. I guess that would be a good symbol to have on a weapon when you are going into battle http://www.fotosearch.com/eclecticol...ols/ECC115/17/ Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 10th June 2007 at 05:12 PM.

28th May 2007, 09:00 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I was watching this. Nice knife. I have to say I was a little put off by the stated postal cost for within the UK.

28th May 2007, 09:02 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Nice example of a quite rare dagger

28th May 2007, 09:24 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Lew it is a really nice buy. The seller wanted £7 post local. Also somebody like you might have push me up to my maximum. I have my eyes on something else .

28th May 2007, 10:10 PM	#6
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Nice Lew! Steve

29th May 2007, 05:02 AM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Sweet!....Now my ivory hilted Sudanese piece is safe for a while!! Very nice piece, indeed.

9th June 2007, 06:34 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	I agree with the other observations on this piece....very nice!! What factors identify this dagger as Manding? The sabres are of course instantly recognizable, but not as familiar with the daggers. Is the tassle at the tip a Manding feature? I always wonder about the large X marking also. It seems that a key component of folk religion in material cultural symbolism in North Africa pertains to the four directions, four corners of the earth etc. Is that the likely case here? I have seen the X on a scabbard on one of those mysterious 'Berber' sabres and recalling that prompted that question. Best regards, Jim

9th June 2007, 09:20 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Lew, Thank you so much for the info on that and the photo of the sabre. I see what you mean on the leatherwork, which really is excellent, and the ribs seem consistant. I think maybe the fact that earlier work in the 19th c. may have been produced more singularly than the stepped up production and quality diffused by volume in the 20th. They dont make nuthin' like they used to !! I recall years ago talking with a gentleman who was Fulani from Guinea and showing him a photo of a Manding sabre, and asked what name it was called by. He told me they called it a 'kota', which is probably some more generic term in Fulani, but thought it may be applicable as the Fulani are of course established in Mali and Manding regions. Any thoughts on the inscribed X ? Is the tassle a feature confined to the Manding ? All the best, Jim

19th June 2007, 05:22 AM	#13
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Lew, Outstanding info on the X marking, thank you so much!! It seems I have seen similar symbol on the scabbard of one of those so called 'Berber' sabres. All the best, Jim