Batak "Ancestor" Daggers

VVV · 23rd November 2006, 03:35 PM

Now and then we discuss these kind of Batak "ancestor" hilts.
I have updated my collection pages with these four daggers and for those interested I have quoted passages from Achim Sibeth's highly recommended book - The Batak.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

The problem with the Batak weapons is that Lake Toba became a tourist spot already in the 1890's.
So about 15 years ago the first Batak tourist items became genuine antiques.

Michael

LabanTayo · 23rd November 2006, 03:53 PM

michael,
do you know if there is a relationship of the figural batak hilts to the bulul of the igorots?

VVV · 23rd November 2006, 04:02 PM

No,

Sorry but I don't know anything about your question.
However the Bataks weren't travellers, AFAIK.

Michael

VANDOO · 23rd November 2006, 04:34 PM

SOME OF THESE DAGGERS ARE VERY SIMULAR TO THE ONE IN THE RARE DAYAK DAGGERS POST. I WOULD THINK THE ONE IS VERY HEAVELY INFLUENCED BY THE BATAK AND THE CURVED BLADED ONES BY THE JAMBIA. THEY COULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT OVER OR TAKEN IN BATTLE OR OWNED BY IMMIGRANTS TO BORNEO OR PERHAPS PEOPLE AT A TRADEING OUTPOST THERE. THEY COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN COPIED FROM THE DAGGERS THE OUTSIDERS CARRIED. AS USUAL YOU CAN SEE THE INFLUENCES BUT CAN ONLY GUESS AS TO HOW SOMETHING CAME ABOUT.

LabanTayo · 23rd November 2006, 05:04 PM

here is an example of a Bulul.
There are many different representations, but this is the monst common

http://www.eriksedge.com/PH203.html

VVV · 23rd November 2006, 05:43 PM

Interesting, thanks for bringing this up.

Could you please share some more info on the use and symbolism of these guardian figures?

Is it like with the Dayak guardian figures, that showing the reproduction organs scares away evil spirits?
Or is it something else, like fertility?
The seated position however seems universal when you don't have chairs.
Do the Ifugao f.i. bury their dead in this position?

Michael

LabanTayo · 23rd November 2006, 05:56 PM

here is a brief description of the Igorot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igorot

The Igorot consists of the Ifugao, Bontoc, Kalinga and other ethnic mountain tribes.

The Bulul info can be found here:
http://interactive.ifugaos.org/modul...le=print&sid=2

VVV · 24th November 2006, 09:33 AM

Thanks for the links.
I read them and had a quick look in three books.
Even if this version of the Bulol is resembling I can't see that they are related?

Michael

LabanTayo · 24th November 2006, 01:27 PM

michael,
i was just curious. i'm always trying to find cultural links between tribes/peoples. i do not know much about the Batak's.
thanks,

VVV · 24th November 2006, 01:52 PM

So am I.
And I don't know much about the Igorot tribes.

Michael

LabanTayo · 24th November 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

So am I.
And I don't know much about the Igorot tribes.

Michael

neither do I....thats one of my weaknesses, the northern Philippine tribes.

23rd November 2006, 03:35 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Batak "Ancestor" Daggers Now and then we discuss these kind of Batak "ancestor" hilts. I have updated my collection pages with these four daggers and for those interested I have quoted passages from Achim Sibeth's highly recommended book - The Batak. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php The problem with the Batak weapons is that Lake Toba became a tourist spot already in the 1890's. So about 15 years ago the first Batak tourist items became genuine antiques. Michael Attached Images

23rd November 2006, 03:53 PM	#2
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	michael, do you know if there is a relationship of the figural batak hilts to the bulul of the igorots?

23rd November 2006, 04:02 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	No, Sorry but I don't know anything about your question. However the Bataks weren't travellers, AFAIK. Michael

23rd November 2006, 04:34 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SOME OF THESE DAGGERS ARE VERY SIMULAR TO THE ONE IN THE RARE DAYAK DAGGERS POST. I WOULD THINK THE ONE IS VERY HEAVELY INFLUENCED BY THE BATAK AND THE CURVED BLADED ONES BY THE JAMBIA. THEY COULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT OVER OR TAKEN IN BATTLE OR OWNED BY IMMIGRANTS TO BORNEO OR PERHAPS PEOPLE AT A TRADEING OUTPOST THERE. THEY COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN COPIED FROM THE DAGGERS THE OUTSIDERS CARRIED. AS USUAL YOU CAN SEE THE INFLUENCES BUT CAN ONLY GUESS AS TO HOW SOMETHING CAME ABOUT.

23rd November 2006, 05:04 PM	#5
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	here is an example of a Bulul. There are many different representations, but this is the monst common http://www.eriksedge.com/PH203.html

23rd November 2006, 05:43 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Interesting, thanks for bringing this up. Could you please share some more info on the use and symbolism of these guardian figures? Is it like with the Dayak guardian figures, that showing the reproduction organs scares away evil spirits? Or is it something else, like fertility? The seated position however seems universal when you don't have chairs. Do the Ifugao f.i. bury their dead in this position? Michael

23rd November 2006, 05:56 PM	#7
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	here is a brief description of the Igorot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igorot The Igorot consists of the Ifugao, Bontoc, Kalinga and other ethnic mountain tribes. The Bulul info can be found here: http://interactive.ifugaos.org/modul...le=print&sid=2

24th November 2006, 09:33 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the links. I read them and had a quick look in three books. Even if this version of the Bulol is resembling I can't see that they are related? Michael

24th November 2006, 01:27 PM	#9
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	michael, i was just curious. i'm always trying to find cultural links between tribes/peoples. i do not know much about the Batak's. thanks,

24th November 2006, 01:52 PM	#10
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	So am I. And I don't know much about the Igorot tribes. Michael