Need sword ID help. Really!

[Bill M]

I am rephotographing my collection for a new insurance company. I can not remember where this sword is from. I have no records. I would really appreciate help here. it is 26" long OAL. The blade does come out the back of the scabbard as shown.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. I will be posting a few more as I come across them. The pictures are intentionally light to show detail.

I am also thinking about putting some pieces on a website and will be asking for your in depth help in details about some of my more obscure pieces.

I should keep better records.....

[David]

Wow, that must be quite an undertaking if you are re-shooting your entie collection.
I think that one is Sumatran if i'm not mistaken.

[Tim Simmons]

love the finish at the end of the scabbard .

[ariel]

Parang Amanremu?

[David]

I'll go a step further and suggest that perhaps this sword comes from the Batak region of Sumatra.

[Tim Simmons]

I wonder if this sword has a lot more to tell. To me it does not look used, though clearly an old piece. Also in a martial sense it does look a little awkward and the handle could be seen as not 100% functional for fighting. I get the feeling this is very high status, perhaps in a religious way. Could it be some sort of sacrificial sword or other emblem of ceremony.

[Rick]

Adni has something fairly similar in form :
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...atak_lebar.htm

And this hilt style resembles yours :
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...ak_hatchet.htm

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Rick

Adni has something fairly similar in form :
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...atak_lebar.htm

And this hilt style resembles yours :
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...ak_hatchet.htm

Gotta be the last one. A Parang Batak Ulu. Whatever Ulu means.

Adni's more hatchet and has a horn hilt, mine is wood, but otherwise the blade carving near the ferrule, the figure on the hilt. even the hatching on the back of the blade.

This piece and mine must have been made by the same people. I love Batak carving! I have a wonderful singha barong head about four feet tall that once stood guard with its buddy flanking a batak long house entryway.

It is hanging in my solarium against a mirror. I really need to clean the mirror.

[David]

The head is marvellous Bill!
i would agree that the dress makers are very likely the same or related, but these are two very different weapons that i would image had different purposes, whether ritual or otherwise, so the term Ulu may or may not also apply to yours. The term may apply to the dress, but i don't think it applies to the blade.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by David

The head is marvellous Bill!
i would agree that the dress makers are very likely the same or related, but these are two very different weapons that i would image had different purposes, whether ritual or otherwise, so the term Ulu may or may not also apply to yours. The term may apply to the dress, but i don't think it applies to the blade.

Hi David,

Certainly the blade shape and probably purpose is different, but the blades have very similar characteristics. The tiny teeth like projections on the cutting edge near the hilts. The possibly talismanic markings on the backs of the blades. Both blades come out the sides of the scabbards.

I'd say that the blades could have been made by the same guy. Certainly the same culture.

Ulu could be "hatchet."

I'd call it a Batak Parang, but I am open to other names and ideas.

[katana]

What a lovely carving .....4 foot tall.......fantastic. Love the sword too.
The functional design of the scabbard seems to allow two things......the scabbard mimics the blade almost exactly.....had it been a normal sheath the 'throat' would have to be quite wide, to allow withdrawal.
It also allows a very 'quick draw' with minimal arm movement.


Solarium......solarium...... here in Britain we're lucky if we even see the sun

[David]

The other parang on Adni's site also comes out the side of the scabbard and has a shape closer to yours, even thought the choice of dress decoration is different. He refers to that as parang sabit which if i understand his description properly means "top slide" which i suppose refers to the manner in which the blade is removed from the sheath. Maybe if Adni is out there he can shed some light on tese mysteries.

[David]

Originally Posted by katana

Solarium......solarium...... here in Britain we're lucky if we even see the sun

"Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun,
If the sun don't come you get a tan from standing in the English rain..." Lennon

[Tim Simmons]

Looking at the sword as a whole, with the finish on the scabbard tip. Is this a snake/naga? If it is, it would be nice if someone could elaborate. I am sure I am not the only one that needs informing about such matters.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Ulu could be "hatchet."

I suspect that "ulu" is merely a form of the word "hulu" and in this case is perhaps referring to the dress with it's figurative hilt. Just a thought.

Yeah Tim, i would say that the sheath does appear to be a representation of the naga. Not too surprising in this part of the world i suppose. What kind of elaboration were you looking for?

[Tim Simmons]

Not just what it is, but why it is what it is?

[Bill M]

I remembered the seller and emailed him. He got it from Adni about five years ago. I sent Adni a link to this thread and asked for more info. Will let you all know what he says.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

I remembered the seller and emailed him. He got it from Adni about five years ago. I sent Adni a link to this thread and asked for more info. Will let you all know what he says.

Adni just responded.

"The origin is surely Batak and aside from one similar example I have presently at the site (interested? It makes a nice pair to the one already have), I can recall at least 2 more. The hilt form with the squatting human figurine style is clearly Batak, and we also see this style in their other swords that usually comes with brass fittings. The fretworks at the base of the blade also has similarities with other Batak swords. The shape of the blade and the sheath is where the confusion comes in. Geographically, the region Batak in central Sumatra has one large city, Medan and I can only suggest that this is maybe a variant of the Batak swords from the lesser known or populated tribes there. Not much else I can add I’m afraid."

I am getting the other one. Maybe some day I'll travel there and see these poeple myself.

[tom hyle]

I had one of these. Is the handle made from antler, by any chance? Does this remind anyone else of Bornean parangs ( 'latok, 'lading...) ?

[RhysMichael]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I had one of these. Is the handle made from antler, by any chance? Does this remind anyone else of Bornean parangs ( 'latok, 'lading...) ?

I would have guessed parang lading based on the blade shape but its just a guess

[RhysMichael]

I just ran across this looking for some other things

http://www.primitivedestinationsinte.../kss100sd.html

[Bill M]

Hi John,

I tnink your link is the same as this one Rick posted earlier that was on Adni's site.
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...ak_hatchet.htm

I wonder who had it first? This guy or Adni?

[paolo]

I have one similar bought at an auction in Italy; the origin is Batak. The blade is different, and also I wish to know its name. For Adni that looked at the pics seems a parang latok. I guess, looking at Van Zonneveld book that might be a klewang puchok meukawet (page 72 Fig.273). Your opinion ?
Regards
Paolo

[Bill M]

Any new ideas?

[kai]

Hello Bill,

Could you possibly add pics of the second one you obtained, too?

These definitely exhibit Batak style. IMHO not old though; in the examples I saw, the blade quality was modest, too.

There are genuine antique klewang-type blades with scabbards opening along the back from Sumatra. However, these look quite a bit different.

Regards,
Kai

[DaveA]

This may be a variant of the klewang known as Ladeng (Ladeeng, Ladieng) from N.Sumatra. I recently purchased this one and am awaiting delivery. Blade shape is similar; hilts are obviously different. Second picture is a Batak hilt on a lawi ayam.
Ladeng photo courtesy of oriental-arms.com. I will upload new photos when it arrives.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by paolo

I have one similar bought at an auction in Italy; the origin is Batak. The blade is different, and also I wish to know its name. For Adni that looked at the pics seems a parang latok. I guess, looking at Van Zonneveld book that might be a klewang puchok meukawet (page 72 Fig.273). Your opinion ?
Regards
Paolo

Paolo, there is a mark at forte on your sword that suggests it may have come from a European blade. The best I can make out is "?LN&?" -- possibly "BLN&D" although the first and last letters are incomplete.


Ian