Interesting short sword

erlikhan · 7th July 2006, 09:15 PM

What do you think this is?Turkish or Arabian with European blade? Military?What can be the reason for it to carry western looking royal signs on its scabbard mountings then? Perhaps could be from kingdom period Egypt?Authentic or a later composition/decoration?

regards

not2sharp · 7th July 2006, 10:33 PM

Eickhorn use to make a very similar sword. Probably European made and then locally decorated. Are there any manufacturing marks/military marks on this?

n2s

TVV · 8th July 2006, 12:17 AM

This one creates an uneasy feeling because it looks like a parade weapon, and parade and award weapons are usually of much better workmanship, especially when it comes to fittings. However, if it is authentic, one needs to ask the question which Middle Eastern Monarchy would use a lion as a symbol or on its crest. Perhaps this comes from Pahlavi Persia, as most other nations would have eagle hilted swords?

Tim Simmons · 8th July 2006, 08:22 AM

Strange mixed bag of styles and influences. The engraving is a little poor.

erlikhan · 8th July 2006, 08:41 AM

n2s,there is no maker's sign anywhere. TVV,the lion on crest doesnt give much clue, cause Ottomans who traditionally doesnt any lion symbol used the same lionhead too - on admirals' swords from late 19th c. to 20th c. -. Tim,I completely agree the engravings are quiet poor for such a military item.So poor that they don't add any to the sword's overall looking but takes from it.But,if they are all later to the sword,why did it not have any sign or stamp in the place of the engravings on the blade, and were its scabbard fittings original completely empty,with no decoration? The scabbard leather looks old and worn. (From the pictures.I havent seen it in real, just the pictures sent by a seller)

regards

not2sharp · 8th July 2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

But,if they are all later to the sword,why did it not have any sign or stamp in the place of the engravings on the blade, and were its scabbard fittings original completely empty,with no decoration?

By the later half of the 19th century the sword makers knew that the military was no longer interested in their products. So they started marketing to the civilian market. This led to the production of a wide variety of society swords; which would have been used as part of the social/parade regalia, given away as trophies and awards, or presented to members of various services upon their separation. These were not military issue, they would have no unit or acceptance marks, and may not have even had a manufacturer's stamp. This was likely a privately purchased sword which somehow found its way to a bazar, and was decorated to spark tourist interest. I suspect the story they peddled with the sword would have been much better then the quality of decoration.

n2s

Raja Muda · 12th July 2006, 02:32 AM

Dear Forumites

Just my two cents. I would vote Iranian for a number of reasons. The first is the crown emblem engraved on several parts of the sword resembles the Qajar and Pahlavi state crown. I've seen it in books but I don't know if anyone on the forum has pictures of it. I can't seem to locate mine

Interestingly enough, the words engraved on both sides of the blade is Arabic letters are 'Watan' which is Arabic for Nation or Land of Origin (denotes nationalist sentiments?) and Badshah or I think the Turkish equivalent is Padishah, which is a sultanate and imperial title I think.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

not2sharp · 14th July 2006, 04:11 AM

http://www.michaeldlong.net/data/Sto...s/103891-2.jpg

Here is a similar Solingen sword.

n2s

Valjhun · 14th July 2006, 07:35 AM

That sword is german made and that is a Pahlavi Crown, and the Lion is the symbol of Persia. The sword has poor engravings ecc. but suitable for a civil officer of some type I would guess.

7th July 2006, 09:15 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Interesting short sword What do you think this is?Turkish or Arabian with European blade? Military?What can be the reason for it to carry western looking royal signs on its scabbard mountings then? Perhaps could be from kingdom period Egypt?Authentic or a later composition/decoration? regards Attached Images Last edited by erlikhan; 7th July 2006 at 09:42 PM.

12th July 2006, 02:32 AM	#7
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Iranian Parade Sword Dear Forumites Just my two cents. I would vote Iranian for a number of reasons. The first is the crown emblem engraved on several parts of the sword resembles the Qajar and Pahlavi state crown. I've seen it in books but I don't know if anyone on the forum has pictures of it. I can't seem to locate mine Interestingly enough, the words engraved on both sides of the blade is Arabic letters are 'Watan' which is Arabic for Nation or Land of Origin (denotes nationalist sentiments?) and Badshah or I think the Turkish equivalent is Padishah, which is a sultanate and imperial title I think. Anyway, I hope this helps.

14th July 2006, 07:35 AM	#9
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	That sword is german made and that is a Pahlavi Crown, and the Lion is the symbol of Persia. The sword has poor engravings ecc. but suitable for a civil officer of some type I would guess. Attached Images

7th July 2006, 10:33 PM	#2
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Eickhorn use to make a very similar sword. Probably European made and then locally decorated. Are there any manufacturing marks/military marks on this? n2s

8th July 2006, 12:17 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,724	This one creates an uneasy feeling because it looks like a parade weapon, and parade and award weapons are usually of much better workmanship, especially when it comes to fittings. However, if it is authentic, one needs to ask the question which Middle Eastern Monarchy would use a lion as a symbol or on its crest. Perhaps this comes from Pahlavi Persia, as most other nations would have eagle hilted swords?

8th July 2006, 08:22 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	Strange mixed bag of styles and influences. The engraving is a little poor.

8th July 2006, 08:41 AM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	n2s,there is no maker's sign anywhere. TVV,the lion on crest doesnt give much clue, cause Ottomans who traditionally doesnt any lion symbol used the same lionhead too - on admirals' swords from late 19th c. to 20th c. -. Tim,I completely agree the engravings are quiet poor for such a military item.So poor that they don't add any to the sword's overall looking but takes from it.But,if they are all later to the sword,why did it not have any sign or stamp in the place of the engravings on the blade, and were its scabbard fittings original completely empty,with no decoration? The scabbard leather looks old and worn. (From the pictures.I havent seen it in real, just the pictures sent by a seller) regards

14th July 2006, 04:11 AM	#8
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	http://www.michaeldlong.net/data/Sto...s/103891-2.jpg Here is a similar Solingen sword. n2s