Any ideas on the identity of this one please ??

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Have had this for a few years now but never could work it out, Indian, or other ??. Snody

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

Have had this for a few years now but never could work it out, Indian, or other ??. Snody

Hello. In my opinion, this is a good Indian sword.

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Much thanks for your help with this one, I was unsure but now I know, what age would you say the sword is ???, I was thinking later 19thc, much thanks again. Snody

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Much Thanks Khan, I had a good idea it was Indian but was not sure, so with that question answered, would you consider this a form of Shamshir, or other, and the date would be late 19th early 20thc right ???.
Again much thanks for your help, I will have a few more interesting pieces to show when I get a bit more experience at using this forum. Snody

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

Much Thanks Khan, I had a good idea it was Indian but was not sure, so with that question answered, would you consider this a form of Shamshir, or other, and the date would be late 19th early 20thc right ???.
Again much thanks for your help, I will have a few more interesting pieces to show when I get a bit more experience at using this forum. Snody

You are welcome, my friend.
Looking at this sword, I think the blade is different in shape from the shamshir. The blade, as it seems to me from the photographs, is wider at the handle. Shamshirs have a blade at the handle and in the middle of the same width. Tell me, please, do I think or do I see a ricasso in the photo?
I would date this sword to the second half of the 19th century. Probably closer to the late 19th century.

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

if you mean the blades cutting edge starts further down the blade from the hilt then yes it has a ricasso, I have marked where the cutting edge starts here in the pic.Snody

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

if you mean the blades cutting edge starts further down the blade from the hilt then yes it has a ricasso, I have marked where the cutting edge starts here in the pic.Snody

Then I think that this blade is still a talwar blade.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a most interesting type of tulwar which in my opinion situates from Deccani origins, and follows the Mughal affinity for Persian style. I would agree on the late 19th century from what is regarded loosely as the 'Durbar period'.
The durbars were Grand Imperial Assembles and celebrations known as the Delhi Durbars (1877,1903, 1911) however similar smaller events of this type were occasions throughout the British Raj where diplomatic matters were handled and large bazaars with wares of Indian artisans were displayed and sold.

The distinct Mughal influences of this example are seen in contrast with the familiar Indo Persian tulwar hilt with disc pommel and domed Ottoman quillon terminals. In this we have the steel shamshir hilt and flueret quillon terminals and langet.

These Persian style affectations favored by the Mughals in the Deccan are seen to the northwest regions of India, in what is now Afghanistan in the tulwar form known as paluoar (Egerton 1885). The example attached is mid 19th c. and while these hilts are loosely of the Indo Persian style, the downturned quillons are distinctly Persian.

The example of the shamshir type tulwar as seen in the one posted here by the Major is like one I have which I regard as Deccani, late 18th to early 19th c. with possible East India Co. associations. It is of the same Persian style, of steel, and mounted with a British M1788 saber blade which has had koftgari embellishment at the forte. While it does not have the flueret terminals, clearly the shamshir hilt with canted pommel is key. Note the knuckle bow ends in similar blockish styllzed dragon as on the paluoar quillons.

As to the blade on the Major's example, it is clearly Indian made and with the sharp point, but following Indian blade form with what is known as the 'Indian ricasso', the blunted section blocked near the hilt (Rawson, 1967).
This much debated feature has often been regarded as to extend the forefinger around the guard from the notably small grip of the Indo Persian tulwar hilt.

The star markings in threes (trimurti) represent the often represented Timurid ancestry of Mughal India from the often termed 'cintamani' device with three dots and often three lines. These are often seen in strategically placed three dot placements on tulwar blades, but here the stars are used, probably recalling similar stars on Solingen blades often occurring in Arab trade (Schimmelbusch & Kirschbaum) but typically with a comet.

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Very interesting and a thorough explanation of style and origin, an interesting sword that I have had for a while and always wondered exactly what it was. thanks again . Snody

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

Very interesting and a thorough explanation of style and origin, an interesting sword that I have had for a while and always wondered exactly what it was. thanks again . Snody

You bet Snody! Its great to see these kinds of sleepers brought out and the chance to learn from them. What other treasures have you stored away ?

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Heaps !!!. . Snody

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

Heaps !!!. . Snody

Excellent! Fire at will sir!!!!