Blade- Italian Storta ?

[aspalathos]

Hello everyone . Please need your opinion about this blade.

[fernando]

Andrea Ferara ...

[Radboud]

Interesting blade, it looks old, mid to late 17th Century in my opinion, how long is it from shoulder to tip?

Andrea Ferrara was a 16th Century blade maker that exported a significant number of swords to the British Isles. They had a reputation for quality, especially in Scotland.

In the time honoured tradition they were subsequently widely faked with the Andrea Ferrara name appearing on blades made well into the mid-18th Century. My suspicion is that your blade was made outside of Italy, most likely in Solingen, for the English or Scottish market.

[aspalathos]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Interesting blade, it looks old, mid to late 17th Century in my opinion, how long is it from shoulder to tip?

Andrea Ferrara was a 16th Century blade maker that exported a significant number of swords to the British Isles. They had a reputation for quality, especially in Scotland.

In the time honoured tradition they were subsequently widely faked with the Andrea Ferrara name appearing on blades made well into the mid-18th Century. My suspicion is that your blade was made outside of Italy, most likely in Solingen, for the English or Scottish market.

Hello,tnx for answer . Total 96 cm

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by aspalathos

Hello,tnx for answer . Total 96 cm

That’s with the tang? If it’s just the blade that’s very interesting. Thats the kind of length you’d expect of a cavalry sabre. In which case you’d be looking more towards Eastern Europe than the British Isles.

[aspalathos]

Originally Posted by aspalathos

Hello everyone . Please need your opinion about this blade.

Total

[Teisani]

Although you do find these blades on East European sabres, usually they have short tangs and 2 holes because since they have riveted handle contruction, not peened. This one looks like it had a peened construction handle. The tang is also kind of long ~14-13cm. Hungarian and Polish, 16th century ones also tend to have big yelmans like this one http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...5&postcount=27. So not likely 1500s to 1700s East European in my opinion.

[Teisani]

Another thing is the double shoulder where the tang meets the blade. Could give an indication of what kind of hilt it had.

[werecow]

Could have been a wide variety of hilts... even a Moroccan saif/nimcha hilt. I know of at least one nimcha currently being sold with the same profile and the "Andrea Ferara" markings (including the single r misspelling), although with my limited experience I can't tell if the mounts are original to the blade (the hilt looks possibly recent to me but since it's on sale I can't post pictures).

EDIT: Found one that was already sold with Ferara markings (though slightly different ones), pic added. Although again the grip may be a replacement judging by how it doesn't quite fit the guard.

[Victrix]

A very similar blade appears on an Italian Storta in Ivan Kovac’s book ”Ubojite Ostrice” (Gornja Stubica, 2003). This is the sword #49 in the picture below from the same book. This picture was previously uploaded in post #2 in a previous thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28557.

The description states it’s a late 16thC Italian Storta, with an overall length of 76cm and a jelman shortened to 5-6cm. Mark of serrated arches whose tops are surrounded by three points. [Translated from Croatian using Google translate.]

Aspalathos, has your blade been chemically cleaned from rust? Typically marks and inscriptions appear as black on an antique blade. Maybe it’s just the light in the photo?

[Jim McDougall]

As others have noted here, the length of this blade is notably longer than the Italian 'storta', which were shorter heavy bladed swords typically.
As has been noted here, this is most certainly a cavalry saber blade, most likely late 17th c into early 18th and East European.

The comparisons to similar multiple back fullers how how prevalent the Italian blade conventions were in continuing blade manufacture in major European centers. In my opinion this blade is probably from one of the Styrian centers, as they typically supplied East European, especially Hungarian sword makers.

The use of the Genoan 'sickle' marks were often applied with other names etc. and added as quality inducements, a convention of course most well known with German examples particularly Solingen.

This same idea in Solingen with the use of ANDREA FERARA was of course almost a standard in producing broadsword blades for the Scots primarily in the mid to latter 17th century. While this name was indeed that of a famed Italian maker of the 16th c. whose fame ironically came primarily from being ubiquitous on the trade blades using his name later, it does not seem that he actually made blades for Scotland himself. This 'legend' is complex as it has been well traveled since being described by earlier arms writers but there is no evidence the true Andrea Ferara (or his brother) ever went to Scotland, or Spain as has been suggested as well.

It has become somewhat accepted that the Scots were drawn to the name for its implications from Latin, (ferara =iron; andrea= good, true, and the patron saint of Scotland St.Andrew). This notion was cleverly employed by the Solingen makers as a sort of 'brand' favored by the Scots. It is in my view not usual to see it on Styrian or East European blades, but again, these conventions were not confined geographically.

It is of course not as usual to see ANDREA FERARA on curved blades, but of course was not as prevalent as on straight blades. The Scots did have occasion for curved blades on basket hilts (called 'turcael') but notably an exception.

The 'yelman' was a blade feature well known on early Oriental sabers which traveled to the Middle East, and was widely favored on East European blades.
Though in many cases dramatically notable, it became more subtle as with this one, where it is simply a widened distal end of the blade, as with its purpose the add weight to the cut.

As noted in the discussion, ANDREA FERARA trade blades often turn up in native context in various spheres with cases in India; North Africa and on 'nimchas' as shown.

[Radboud]

Jim, the origin of the Andrea Ferrara blades has been traced back to Italy. There exists a paper record of an order for X number of blades to be shipped to England each month

If you have a spare hour, this video is well worth the watch:
Would the Real Andrea Ferrara Please Stand up

[aspalathos]

Originally Posted by Victrix

A very similar blade appears on an Italian Storta in Ivan Kovac’s book ”Ubojite Ostrice” (Gornja Stubica, 2003). This is the sword #49 in the picture below from the same book. This picture was previously uploaded in post #2 in a previous thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28557.

The description states it’s a late 16thC Italian Storta, with an overall length of 76cm and a jelman shortened to 5-6cm. Mark of serrated arches whose tops are surrounded by three points. [Translated from Croatian using Google translate.]

Aspalathos, has your blade been chemically cleaned from rust? Typically marks and inscriptions appear as black on an antique blade. Maybe it’s just the light in the photo?

No, I didn't touch blade

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Jim, the origin of the Andrea Ferrara blades has been traced back to Italy. There exists a paper record of an order for X number of blades to be shipped to England each month

If you have a spare hour, this video is well worth the watch:
Would the Real Andrea Ferrara Please Stand up

True, the Ferrara brothers ,Zandona (Donato) and Andrea working in a shop in Fisterre from c.1566, and in Dec.1578 were visited by men from London to sign an agreement to supply bi monthly boxes of swords for a ten year period.
They seem to have had a notoriety as they were mentioned in an important treatise of 1567 by Cigogna concerning warfare and weaponry.
Andrea died in 1612.

It is unclear how much of this apparent contract ever realized, but clearly the Andrea Ferara name was well known in England, later in Scotland of course. While these blades were ubiquitous on Scottish basket hilts from second half of 17th century into 18th, I have a mortuary sword (believed Hounslow) from c.1640s with ANDREA FERARA blade.

Though blades with this famed name are found in many countries, it seems they derive primarily from Solingen shops where they found their way to these other places via trade networks.

See: "Master Swordsmiths of Feltre and Belluno". by Michele Vello & Fabriio Tonin, 2017.

[aspalathos]

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...ket-hilt-sabre

Same length

[Victrix]

Elsewhere in Ivan Kovac’s book ”Ubojite Ostrice” (Gornja Stubica, 2003) is a similar blade #168 (middle in the picture) on what is described as an end of 17thC Hungarian hussar sabre with overall length 94cm. The blade is marked with serrated bows and on the ricasso there’s a mark of a serrated wheel. The blade has the three fullers running along the back of the blade although it doesn’t have the Andrea Ferrara mark. Interestingly the tang is straight and not curved in the Hungarian or oriental style. I think this hilt type is the bridging version between 16-17thC straight cross guard (like the other two sabres in the picture) and 18thC stirrup type knuckle guard of later hussar sabres.

This supports Jim’s argument that the blade is for a cavalry sword and most likely produced in the Austrian region of Styria for the East European market. As Jim mentioned the Italian Stortas had shorter and sturdier blades. The Stortas pictured in post #10 are shorter in overall length of 85cm, with #49 at only 76cm (shortened tip?).

[Teisani]

My doubt that this blade was for a E-European sabre is due to the tang shape. E-European sabres tend to have riveted handles not peened. This one has a tang destined for a peened handle. Nimcha or storta seem more plausible to me.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by aspalathos

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...ket-hilt-sabre

Same length

This is a difficult topic. There remains a significant amount of uncertainty around these basket-hilted sabres. Even the description in the auction is unclear as to its authenticity, stating clearly that the blade has been reassembled for repair.