LEATHER WORKING LUNETTE KNIFE

[Jim McDougall]

This item found in an antique shop was thought to be a 19th c. flensing knife, but there is little info on these. There seems to be a number of variations, but this lunette shape is seen on a couple of examples I found.

The first pics are of the example, which has an unusual makers mark.

The other is with a longer handle and of mid 19th c Maine.

Another example with handle like mine and similar blade is from NE England, Whitby, and used in 19th c.

Any chance anyone out there has ever seen anything like this, or the makers mark ?

[JoeCanada42]

James Dixon Victorian Flensing Knife or Ulu c1850-60. Whaling Industry History. Antique Sheffield Knives.

similar and the history on the listing is fun

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/7701...isting_details

sorry I haven't found one with the mark, but a lot of Ulu's have similar shape

[JoeCanada42]

https://www.thepaintboxgarden.com/ul...uaq-greenland/

more info

[Richard G]

I regret to say I think it is rather more mundane. A leatherworker's or saddler's round knife.

https://hwebber.co.uk/shop/c-s-osbor...IaAgn_EALw_wcB

Best wishes
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much guys!
Naturally my hopes were for the whaling use, but I had seen the more mundane description as a leather working knife. It seems those in listing mentioned the alternative leather work use prudently, while the heading was for the whalers use.

Is it possible these might have became a 'crossover' or duplicate items?
In images of flensing tools, many seem to have longer handles, in fact notably so, but with same lunette style handle.

It would seem that the longer handle would be needed considering the size of the whale, but the smaller version in different stage where a long handle was inconvenient?

I hope the topic of 'whaling' is not disturbing to many readers, but my intent is toward historic aspects as always. There is very little in resources on these kinds of antiques, unless in specialized maritime antiquities firms or sellers.

Even if a more 'mundane' object, this example still has interest as an antique item, and hopefully the marking might be found. I have checked Levine's "Guide to Knives"(4th Ed.) but no luck.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I hope the topic of 'whaling' is not disturbing to many readers ...

You bet it is , Jim ... historic or not !

[Rick]

Fascinating reading almost encyclopedic in scope whalesite.org

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Rick, very much appreciated.

[Richard G]

Sorry Jim,
Mundanity even extends to the longer handled variant.

https://www.pitchcare.com/shop/bulld...MaAnyCEALw_wcB

Best wishes
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Sorry Jim,
Mundanity even extends to the longer handled variant.

https://www.pitchcare.com/shop/bulld...MaAnyCEALw_wcB

Best wishes
Richard

No problem Richard, perhaps accepting this identification will render this item less offensive and removed from the squeamishness brought in cases by the other possibility.

[kahnjar1]

While whaling today is frowned upon, surely discussion of the topic is still acceptable. Don't forget that this Forum discusses items which are designed to kill people which surely is less acceptable!
Stu

[fernando]

Options Stu, options. Evidently all our forum members find it acceptable to talk about guns and swords; but perhaps some of them would find it dispensable to develop discussions over whale flensing.
... Just saying .

[A. G. Maisey]

Genesis 1:26-28; 9:1-5

[SidJ]

Alan
I dont think there is any chance that this diktat has been missed by humanity in general. We have and are continuing to put our best efforts forward in plundering and commodifying this planet to the point of no return.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Sid, you're right.

The knife cuts both ways, we were given choice:- we can read these quotes in at least two ways.

Thus endeth the lesson for today, when references to biblical quotes & political quotes get into discussion, its time to go home.

[David]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

While whaling today is frowned upon, surely discussion of the topic is still acceptable. Don't forget that this Forum discusses items which are designed to kill people which surely is less acceptable!
Stu

Bingo!

[fernando]

Not intending to switch the topic but, which tool would a whale need to 'flay' a man .

[Jim McDougall]

My regrets for ever posting this item. I had hoped it would be discussed objectively without 'sensitivities' and editorial.
I think at this point I would gladly accept the 'option' suggested in that this item MUST be a LEATHER WORKING TOOL.

Certainly leather is a much more humanely obtained material, as used rather commonly as we know in the production of many products. It seems this has been the case for a number of years. Apart from the tools to work the leather from hides, there are many tools used in butchering meat, even beyond knives used in hunting, another topic which has remarkable similarity to this.

As agreed, the sensitivities toward discussion of weapons used in warfare seem to be quite acceptable in spite of obvious dynamics.
Only ignorance would support the notion that there is fairness or humanity in war, there is only survival. We study the arms historically and objectively, ASIDE from the reality of purpose.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by fernando

Not intending to switch the topic but, which tool would a whale need to 'flay' a man .

Well, lately Killer Whales have been attacking sailboats in the Bay of Biscay and offshore of your home buddy.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/article...y-portugal.htm

[Jim McDougall]

I have held back as long as I can, there WAS this huge white whale........Melville (1851).

Based on the sinking of the ship Essex in 1820 by a rogue sperm whale.

[fernando]

Well guys, sometimes the whale wins. You know the joke .

[Jim McDougall]

Well noted, sometimes the hunters become the hunted, case in point, the 'lions of Tsavo'.

[Jim McDougall]

Confirmation from the New Bedford Whaling Museum,
this is NOT a whaling knife, but a 'round knife' for working leather, just as Richard noted.

-finis-

[drac2k]

I am also offended by the continued murder of whales, "ABOLISH THE WINDMILLS!"

[fernando]

Originally Posted by drac2k

... "ABOLISH THE WINDMILLS!"

.

[drac2k]

The noise generated by wind turbines has been attributed by some as the cause for whales beaching themselves. On a more serious note these "wind mills," produce infrasonic sound waves that have been proven to be detrimental to humans and weaponized by various countries.
One step forward, two steps back.

[fernando]

Duly noted ... and applauded .

[Interested Party]

Nice video of one of these knives in action for those who have never seen one.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eBPVH...?feature=share

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks very much I.P.
When I acquired this, I was thinking of Eskimo 'ulu', which are of course often in wide variation, but in a number of references showed examples which were virtually identical to this.
The deeply stamped makers mark suggested possibly a British or American item, and again several references showed similar crescent bladed knives as whalers flensing knives of 19th c.

All of these combined led me to believe this example (OP) might be one of these. However most flensing activity references showed larger bladed tools and often on poles.

Finally I contacted a Whalers Museum in Massachusetts which noted my example was not a flensing knife and likely indeed a leather working tool.
In degree disappointed, I still like the item as probably a late 19th to early 20th knife for leather work as shown, and interesting in that respect.
Thank you for sharing this on how it was used.

Both of these illustrations are shown as whalers knives online, both claimed 19th c.

[Interested Party]

The top one looks like the handle is a socket.