Possibly Chinese Pichok?

[RobT]

Hi All,

I just picked up this pichok from a local flea market. It appears to be very new and has "2001" (in Hindu/Arabic numerals) dot engraved on one side of the blade. That notwithstanding, there are some things that are intriguing about the piece.
The first thing that caught my eye is the sturdy construction. There is no backstrap. The tang tapers from over 1cm (over 3/8") thick at the butt to just over 4.76cm (over 1/8") at the base of the blade. The blade measures about 12.3cm (just under 4-7/8") long and also tapers distally. The butt and bolster halves appear to be solid brass not sheet. As you can imagine, the knife is heavy for its size (about 22.4cm, 8-7/8" OAL). The butt halves are held onto the tang by two steel rivets and bolsters are held on by one steel and one copper rivet. The center sections are horn and are held on by two copper rivets. As decoration, the horn scales have four dots which appear to be aluminum wrapped malachite plus a big pink disk (of unknown composition) between the dots. I am likewise unsure what the red dots in the brass are made of.
The second thing I noticed is the superb fit. Both the horn and the brass mate to the tang without gap. This is especially remarkable since the tang profile on the top is very different from the bottom profile.
But the thing that really surprised me is what appears to be Chinese characters engraved in brass on the blade. Is there a Chinese speaking Turkic group that uses pichok? Maybe the engraving on the blade and tang could provide a clue? I did a close-up of the writing. I doubt anyone can make it out but I would welcome a try. The sheath is leather and well made but, even though the knife fits, I am not sure it is original to the piece because the shape of the tip doesn't match the shape of the blade or the shape of other pichok sheaths I have seen. The tooling on the sheath sort of reminds me of Finnish designs.

Sincerely,
RobT

[ariel]

Uighurs?

[gp]

Mostly these are of Uzbek origin but as you mention Chinese characters it might well be an Uyghurian Pchak and originating from Yangigisar, an ancient Uyghur city in East Turkestan, which is very well known for making these Uyghur knives.The city has a tradition of gunsmiths and knifemakers passing down from generation to generation going back quite some centuries

[ariel]

I have yet to see Uzbeki Р’chak or Tajiki Pichok with such massive blade. Hieroglyphs establish Uighur origin. And, yes, Yangisar.

I wonder whether knife manufacture is still present there: Uighurs are Muslims and were not very fond of total Chinese control. There were multiple acts if killing local Chinese functionaries, and currently a good chunk of Uighurs are in concentration camps and “ re-education camps” (which is the same). Ownership of “sharpies” is severely controlled. Google : “Authorities in Xinjiang Require Special Permits to Buy Kitchen Knives’’”. Knives are marked with laser—etched QR codes.

[gp]

Originally Posted by ariel

And, yes, Yangisar.

Yangigisar: not to be mistaken with the neighbouring province Yangishar.


Yangigisar (uygur ناھىيىسى ) of Yingjisha County (wale 县) - province Kashgar in Xinjiang Uygur autonomous area in China and wellknown for its production of tradional Uygur dagger-knives pchak

So Rob, it seems that you'r lucky and have a great catcht if you read the comment in the enclosed link! Congratulations!

https://www.farwestchina.com/travel/...nife-yengisar/

[RobT]

Hi All,

Thanks for your responses. Based on the information you supplied, I went on line and found a site (What is the Pchak knife for? [https://uofa.ru/en/nozh-pchak-dlya-c...chnoi-raboty/]) which gives a pretty good overview of the history, construction, various types, and geographical distribution of Uzbek, Tajik, and Uyghur pchak and cords. The author thinks that the Uyghur knives are the most attractive. As it regards my knife, the site shows a Uyghur knife that is very similar and has the same brass inlay on the blade. Although it is of Uyghur manufacture, the sheath that came with my knife isn't for that type of blade (called a kayke). It is probably for a tugri or a tolbargi (willow leaf) blade. I have always wanted a good pchak and now I want more.

Sincerely,
RobT

[gp]

count me in...

I am also looking for a vintage or antique Uygur one but think it to be a most challenging endeavour
as it will be one requiring a lot of patience and a bag of money.
it had been discussed as well previously:


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

[ausjulius]

nothing chinese it is uyghur. VERY recently made. last few decades.... hence the chinese characters.. they probably have to put it on there to sell it..

[RobT]

ausjulius,

Given that "2001" is dot engraved on one side of the blade, there is little doubt that your age assessment is correct. Separatist sentiment aside, I don't know whether or not the Uyghurs by and large consider themselves part of China in the same way that various ethnic groups in US territories (e.g. Puerto Rican Americans) consider themselves but I have seen store signs in Yangigisar which show that Chinese characters (as well as the English alphabet) are commonly used so I don't know if the characters on my knife are a result of government coercion or just the use of a written lingua franca.

Sincerely,
RobT

[ariel]

Chinese authorities discriminate against Uyghurs left and right.
Uyghur language is banned in Xinjian as a language of instruction from schools to colleges/Universities. Everything is in Chinese.
Islam ( Uyghur religion) is practically banned. Everything resembling adherence to daily Muslim practices is forbidden: growing a beard for men, wearing head scarves for women etc. Not drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco is a ground for “re-education”. Religious Islamic education is banned. Mosques are converted into secular offices.
Close to a million people are in the “re-education” or plainly concentration camps, and another million have to serve as informers. Buying a kitchen knife has to be sanctioned by Chinese authorities. Everybody has to attend weekly gatherings of hoisting Chinese flag and sing Chinese anthem. All press and radio/TV is in Chinese. Having a relative living abroad is a valid ground for an anti- Chinese suspicion.

Etc, etc, etc.

Indeed, why don’t Uyghurs view China positively?

[RobT]

Ariel,

I knew there was unrest but I didn't know that the government response was so repressive. I can see only two possible outcomes to such actions. One, the subject people that survive and remain lose their cultural identity entirely or two, the subject people hate their oppressors forever. A bad policy indeed.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by RobT

Separatist sentiment aside, I don't know whether or not the Uyghurs by and large consider themselves part of China in the same way that various ethnic groups in US territories (e.g. Puerto Rican Americans) consider themselves but I have seen store signs in Yangigisar which show that Chinese characters (as well as the English alphabet) are commonly used so I don't know if the characters on my knife are a result of government coercion or just the use of a written lingua franca.

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. Until relatively recently, knifemakers in Yangigisar made good money from tourists. First of all, tourists from other regions of China, dozens of buses with which came to the city every day. Needless to say, the Chinese characters on the knives were addressed to the main category of buyers.
Arabic script was not banned by the government. However, it must be borne in mind that the locals, with all their desire, could not buy all the knives they made - they were made a lot, a lot. In addition, it should be noted that the Uighurs are not the only indigenous inhabitants of Xinjiang. Tajiks, Pamirs, Kirghiz, Kazakhs, Mongols, Tibetans, Sibo, Tatars have lived there since ancient times. And these peoples have knives of their own style, which is different from the Uighur.
Another important point - until recently, the Chinese leadership supported the production of Uyghur knives as part of the support of folk traditional crafts. Just like today the government supports the production of Baoan, Achang (Husa) knives and even Tibetan knives. What is happening today in Yangigisar is a purely political practice that kills traditional craftsmanship, condemns the craftsmen to poverty and embitters them. In the end, it will not benefit the government itself.

Sincerely,
Serge

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by ariel

Chinese authorities discriminate against Uyghurs left and right.
Uyghur language is banned in Xinjian as a language of instruction from schools to colleges/Universities. Everything is in Chinese.
Islam ( Uyghur religion) is practically banned. Everything resembling adherence to daily Muslim practices is forbidden: growing a beard for men, wearing head scarves for women etc. Not drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco is a ground for “re-education”. Religious Islamic education is banned. Mosques are converted into secular offices.
Close to a million people are in the “re-education” or plainly concentration camps, and another million have to serve as informers. Buying a kitchen knife has to be sanctioned by Chinese authorities. Everybody has to attend weekly gatherings of hoisting Chinese flag and sing Chinese anthem. All press and radio/TV is in Chinese. Having a relative living abroad is a valid ground for an anti- Chinese suspicion.

Etc, etc, etc.

Indeed, why don’t Uyghurs view China positively?

In the late 1980s, after the Soviet troops withdrew from Afghanistan, armed and combat-trained units of the Uighur Mujahideen began to return home to Xinjiang. The Chinese authorities were not happy with them. Since that time, the conflict either subsides or flares up more strongly. But until recently, this did not interfere with the production of traditional Uighur knives. On the contrary, the authorities believed that the opportunity to make good money on tourists makes the craftsmen loyal. And the authorities had reason to believe so - the traditionally negative Tibetans became much more loyal after the growing flow of Chinese tourists allowed them to earn good money. But apparently in the case of the Uighurs, something went wrong as expected.
Perhaps someone does not know, but it is in Xinjiang that the Chinese mine and enrich uranium for their nuclear projects. There are also nuclear test sites and bases for strategic ballistic missiles aimed at India and Russia. As it is not difficult to guess, one should not hope for an easy and simple solution to the conflict.