Please post pictures of famous reputed esoteric blades?

[Ganapati]

As title says. I would love to see a gallery of pics of famous kerises.

Here is one from me that I dont own

[Amuk Murugul]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=dongkol

[Amuk Murugul]

[Ganapati]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=dongkol

Nice

[David]

While i absolutely understand your interest i am not certain there will be much of real interest turning up in this thread. Assuming that you are interested in more than just well know keris, but keris that are well known for esoteric abilities, i am not convinced that keris that have been considered "magickal" or "powerful" get photographed very often. There are indeed numerous named keris that can be found in legend, but where they are today or if they ever really existed is a matter of faith more than fact. Powerful Balinese keris such as Durga Dingkul and Bangawang Canggu that we do know existed were never returned to the Royal House of Klungkung despite promises. Few people had ever even seen these keris blades outside of their sheaths, let alone photographed them. I would think this is probably true of any keris that has ever been considered truly powerful. Where these important Balinese regalia keris are today is still a mystery.
Obviously we can show keris that were created for talismanic or esoteric purposes that are less than famous. Many of us have such keris in our collections. Though personally i have always felt uncomfortable showing such keris in public forums.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

.. Powerful Balinese keris such as Durga Dingkul and Bangawang Canggu that we do know existed were never returned to the Royal House of Klungkung despite promises..

David, I'm interested in learning more about those two Kerises you mentioned, if you don't mind sharing. Why or how are they considered powerful ..where are they now and what was the circumstances?

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

David, I'm interested in learning more about those two Kerises you mentioned, if you don't mind sharing. Why or how are they considered powerful ..where are they now and what was the circumstances?

I don't want you to think i am blowing off your question, but rather than spend time pulling quotes from this book i an simply going to strongly suggest that you acquire and read Margaret J. Wiener's "Visible and Invisible Realms : Power, Magic, and Colonial Conquest in Bali". It is seriously one of of the best and most important books i know about understanding the keris, especially as it applies to Bali.I always recommend that anybody with an interest in keris should read this book...probably more than once.
The specific powers of these and other important keris are discussed at some length in this book.
These two keris were among the pajenengan keris that were confiscated by colonial powers after the 1908 Klungkung puputan. Pajenengan keris are those that are inherited by a ruler upon their succession to the throne. They were royal regalia. These keris were promised to be returned to Klungkung and then never were. Where they are today is anyones guess.

[shadejoy]

David, thank you.

[A. G. Maisey]

A long time ago, back when I was still in Keris Kindergarten, I was wandering around the environs of the Jogja kraton with a guide and I noted the keris that an abdi dalem who had stopped to talk to us was wearing.

At that time I did not speak nor understand Bahasa Indonesia, and I did not understand one hell of a lot of other things too.

I asked my guide in English if it might be possible for the gentleman who was speaking with us (in Javanese) to let me have a look at his keris. I had in my mind that if this keris measured up to my very ignorant & misguided standards of that time in my life, I would make him an offer for it that he could not refuse.

My guide blanched under his very good natural suntan and carefully explained to me that such a request would be understood by the abdi dalem as an insult, it could make him very angry, and it would be best if I said no more about this subject.

Later in my education I found that serious Javanese people do not permit anybody other than close family and close friends to lay eyes upon a personal keris. By "keris" I mean the blade, it is the blade that is a sacred object, the dress bears a similar relationship to the blade as clothes do to a man.

Photographs of personal keris are anathema. In Javanese culture such requests are invariably refused.

In collector culture, quite the opposite is true.

One either observes the standards of one culture, or of the other.

Personally, I do not permit photographs of my own personal kerises to be seen by people other than those whom I believe will keep the photographs to themselves.

It is generally accepted that it is very unwise to allow others to see a personal keris, or photos of a personal keris, until such time as one takes the decision to move that keris to a new custodian.

[Ganapati]

https://youtu.be/kqLWDd8OisU

YouTube video depicting famous kerises

[Ganapati]

Keris taming sari

https://images.app.goo.gl/9S6xN2aL3wi9UPpF7

[A. G. Maisey]

As I wrote GP:-

Photographs of personal keris are anathema. In Javanese culture such requests are invariably refused.

In collector culture, quite the opposite is true.

Just because somebody is ethnically Javanese, this does not at all mean that they follow the dictates of Javanese tradition or culture.

Just because somebody has a Javanese name, or perhaps looks Javanese this does not mean that they are ethnically Javanese.

My teachers were old school, traditional Javanese.

I personally prefer to accept that which these people taught me than that of which I might find evidence upon the internet.

Others are free to observe whatever standards they might wish to observe.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Ganapati

https://youtu.be/kqLWDd8OisU

YouTube video depicting famous kerises

They may be famous but I doubt it and the pics are very poor!
Regards

[Rick]

I think we are on a road not worth traveling in this thread.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ganapati

https://youtu.be/kqLWDd8OisU

YouTube video depicting famous kerises

Ganapati, I cannot image that any of the keris shown in this video you posted are particularly "famous" or powerful. I found watching it a waste of time.
Hard to say if the image of keris Taming Sari that you posted is indeed the actual keris of legend. A keris that has been claimed to be the famous Taming Sari has been part of the Perak royal regalia since at least 1907 when it was photographed with some of the other royal regalia. This does look like it could be the same keris that you posted, but whether is is the actual Keris Taming Sari is anyone's guess. According to lore it was given to the Sultan of Malacca, and eventually made its way to the royal regalia of Perak. There does seem to be some provenance in tracing the history of this keris, but it is hard to say if any of it is to be believed. And there is also a legend that Hang Tuah threw the keris into saying that he would return when the kris re-appeared. If it is the actual Taming Sari keris this would be one of the very few examples of a famous esoteric blade being photographed.
As has already been suggested, this is a strange road to travel. As i stated before, truly esoteric and important keris blades are rarely show, let alone photographed. So finding examples to fuel this discussion will be near impossible. And just because someone has said a keris is famous or powerful does not necessarily so. So i am not sure what there is to be gained by this conversation or what you hope to accomplish with this thread.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

As i stated before, truly esoteric and important keris blades are rarely shown, let alone photographed. So finding examples to fuel this discussion will be near impossible. And just because someone has said a keris is famous or powerful does not necessarily so.

I will try to propose an exception to what David said about showing esoteric and important blades (at least for me).
However the blade in question is not a keris but a badik from Sulawesi previously belonging to a local ruler's family in Kalimantan.
The blade is old and the pamor pattern is indistinct, and I did not attempt to treat it but just polish it a little. The hilt is made from hippo ivory, the selut is from 22 kt gold filigree, and the scabbard from hippo ivory and a precious wood.
The story of this kris (which I could not witness myself but was reported to me by a reliable informant) is that it protected the house of its owner from burning while the 300 surrounding houses of the village were burned to the ground. What I could witness on the other hand is that after about 1 week after I acquired this piece, the whole village of Bontang was destroyed by a fire including the house of the seller who kept the badik in his custody!
Another part of the story is that this badik was normally not meant to be mine because of its original price and many people wanting to buy it, but I visited the seller just at the right moment as if there had been some magical influence...

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

However the blade in question is not a keris but a badik from Sulawesi previously belonging to a local ruler's family in Kalimantan.

Sorry Jean, but as i am sure you know by now, we do not discuss blades that are not keris on this forum.
I also have to say that while you have strung together what might be an interesting set of coincidental circumstances surrounding this badik, i am not sure it qualifies it as an important or famous blade and it certainly is not a keris.
I frankly don't understand where folks would like a discussion like this to go. Even if we had some interesting and famous keris blades to show i am unaware of any from legend or lore that have been tested or proven for their esoteric or magickal qualities. I have never seen a video that wasn't faked (often in comical ways) that shows a keris flying, moving on its own or causing any result of a magickal act by it's wielder. So all we could possibly gather is a bunch of unsubstantiated stories based purely upon faith. Please understand this is not to say that i am a disbeliever that such magickal qualities exist in certain keris. But like everything else in this vein these claims are never demonstrable. The logic that because this man's house did not burn when this badik was in residence, but it did burn once he sold it, so it must have not burned because of the presence of the badik simply cannot hold up to any reasonable scrutiny. There could be any number of reasons that things worked out like they did.
I am afraid that without any further statements showing that this discussion has a valid or useful direction or purpose, that both Rick and myself have decided this is a thread that is best closed.