sharpener with medieval swords

ausjulius · 14th June 2021, 04:19 PM

a member commented in another discussion that some medieval swords came with a steel hone in their scabbards.. this got me very curious.. i have never seen such an example of a medieval weapon with a steel sharpening hone.
has anyone seen an example of this.. or of any other honing device in a sword sheath (i have seen a long narrow sharpening stone in the scabbard of a hewing knife or hunters chopping knife from the 1500s.)

David R · 14th June 2021, 11:00 PM

Well you set me off on a search there, the internet is useless for the odder stuff. Being curated for popularity there are any number of Japanese manga references but nothing I could find as factual. Best I could find was a Katzbalger of the early 16thC with a myriad of accessories. Bottom of page 148 of "Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight" isbn 1 870 98100 6. I am sure I have seen other and earlier examples, but that's what I found tonight with a quick search of my shelves.

The problem is that a scabbard accessory depends on a scabbard surviving, and as you go back in time fewer and fewer survive. Hunting trousse are often more of a tool kit than anything else, and being a high class item survive disproportionaly.

Lee · 14th June 2021, 11:32 PM

I have never come across the presence of a steel sharpening hone in association with a European medieval sword that I can recall. As David notes, however, very few scabbards have survived.

ausjulius · 15th June 2021, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I have never come across the presence of a steel sharpening hone in association with a European medieval sword that I can recall. As David notes, however, very few scabbards have survived.

yes i agree and also.. many times the types of scabbards that survive are not apllways a good representation of all types that exsisted.
i have seen sharpeners in hackmessers and other heaving hunting hauers.. and haves seen it in the backs of some kindjals. but these were stones.

it is true the internet alas lacks more of the details of books..

im curious then when did the sharpening steel in europe appear? i wounder wuat and s the oldest example or depiction...

as to using it on a sword.. it does indeed work for tiny rolls in a fine edge.. if you had no other option.. ive used one on a machete as well and on a sword.. and it.. works although theres better things. but if you use a sword for test cutting and you feel its dulling in some spot it will work aslong as your edgeis fine and not to brittle . so it would be curious if somebody tried it

David R · 15th June 2021, 11:57 PM

Well, I have put "the Bat signal" up on a couple of other forums, and they reckon in knife scabbards by the late 15thC and on swords by the early 16th. Early days though yet.

ausjulius · 16th June 2021, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Well, I have put "the Bat signal" up on a couple of other forums, and they reckon in knife scabbards by the late 15thC and on swords by the early 16th. Early days though yet.

interesting, please do update any find your findings here. would be facinating to see a picture of an example..

im curious when people discouvered to scribe fibe cuttung edges on them like a file the nepali hones are just a flat hard steel with an edge.. the siberian ones are a small narriw rectangle with of hard steel attached to the knife sheath.. both rather differentfrom european ones, but also present in the tools sheaths

, i wounder whats the oldest depection of a sharpening steel being used... how far they date back.. and how far tgeir traditional, preindustrial distribution into the near east was

14th June 2021, 04:19 PM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	sharpener with medieval swords a member commented in another discussion that some medieval swords came with a steel hone in their scabbards.. this got me very curious.. i have never seen such an example of a medieval weapon with a steel sharpening hone. has anyone seen an example of this.. or of any other honing device in a sword sheath (i have seen a long narrow sharpening stone in the scabbard of a hewing knife or hunters chopping knife from the 1500s.)

14th June 2021, 11:00 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Well you set me off on a search there, the internet is useless for the odder stuff. Being curated for popularity there are any number of Japanese manga references but nothing I could find as factual. Best I could find was a Katzbalger of the early 16thC with a myriad of accessories. Bottom of page 148 of "Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight" isbn 1 870 98100 6. I am sure I have seen other and earlier examples, but that's what I found tonight with a quick search of my shelves. The problem is that a scabbard accessory depends on a scabbard surviving, and as you go back in time fewer and fewer survive. Hunting trousse are often more of a tool kit than anything else, and being a high class item survive disproportionaly.

14th June 2021, 11:32 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	I have never come across the presence of a steel sharpening hone in association with a European medieval sword that I can recall. As David notes, however, very few scabbards have survived.

15th June 2021, 11:57 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Well, I have put "the Bat signal" up on a couple of other forums, and they reckon in knife scabbards by the late 15thC and on swords by the early 16th. Early days though yet.