The Dagger of an Early Malay Conqueror (15thC Kris)

B.I · 1st June 2006, 02:05 AM

i came across this article a little while ago. i was caught up doing other things at the time, so didnt have time to read it properly. thought it would be of great interest to others though, so i took some brief details.

'The Dagger of an Early Malay Conqueror - Kris of muhammad iskander 'abd-ar-rahman mu'azzam shah (AD 1413-1425)' by H.Goetz 1944.

i am a big fan of goetz as he wrote an important and very rare book on the bikaner state, with a small, illustrated section on arms (took me many years to finally find a copy to buy and it wasnt cheap!).

i cant remember where i found the above mentioned article, but can try and backtrack it through my notes.

the dagger was bought by by baron r.j.de touche-skadding, who bought it from the descendants of sultan hussain (1812-35).
it originally belonged to the malay sultan abdhul rahman mirzam shah (first muslim sultan of the malacca empire), ruler of singapore and the rhio island.
he was one of the first malay rulers to embrace islam. he was ancestor of mahmud shah 1st, whose grandson, sultan mahmud shah 2nd was defeated and lost the kingdom of malacca to the portuguese in 1511. becasuse of the tradition associated with that famous ancestor, this kris was held in high esteem by his descendants, who treasured it as an heirloom.
the inscribed blade, silver crown at base of hilt and sheath of beaten silver are (apparantly) original parts of the Sultan abdhul rahmans kris, while the wooden hilts and sheath lining were renewed when the original parts became too worn for use.

the above was copied from the article. he showed 3 images, which as expected from 1944, were of poor quality. it showed a kris with a silver inscription that runs the length of both sides of the blade. plus, a complete pic of it in its scabbard.

now, i have no idea if the kris is authentic or not, but was curious if this particular dagger is well known, or if it has been published elsewhere.

the article runs around 12 pages. hope this is of interest.

Jens Nordlunde · 1st June 2006, 05:10 PM

Hi Brian,
Did you not forget the picture/pictures?
Jens

B.I · 1st June 2006, 07:10 PM

hi jens,
unfortunately i couldnt copy the article (sorry Shahrial). i stumbled across it whilst involved in reseraching something else and just didnt have time (its not a matter of taking it to a photocopying machine - much more complicted and time consuming).
the reason i posted it was to get a response from the kris guys to see if its worth following up. it wont be easy to do, and will take time (and cost) so i only bother with articles of huge importance (and not passing interest). otherwise i sit there whenever i can and take notes. 2 weeks ago i had just two pages copied and it cost £5 and i had to wait a couple of hours (ok, it was a 250 year old book so not quite the same).
is anyone familiar with this particular piece?

kai · 1st June 2006, 10:01 PM

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the pointers! Please give the full reference - maybe others can make xerox copies more easily...

Regards,
Kai

B.I · 2nd June 2006, 01:59 AM

hi kai,
ok, i will try. i have to backtrack my thinking process at the time as i found this article in a book, which i found by looking for another book (if you know what i mean - i spend a lot of my time searching through obscure bibliographies)
will post the full reference when i can find it.

from memory it was a very obsure reference so may not be easy to find.

1st June 2006, 02:05 AM	#1
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	The Dagger of an Early Malay Conqueror (15thC Kris) i came across this article a little while ago. i was caught up doing other things at the time, so didnt have time to read it properly. thought it would be of great interest to others though, so i took some brief details. 'The Dagger of an Early Malay Conqueror - Kris of muhammad iskander 'abd-ar-rahman mu'azzam shah (AD 1413-1425)' by H.Goetz 1944. i am a big fan of goetz as he wrote an important and very rare book on the bikaner state, with a small, illustrated section on arms (took me many years to finally find a copy to buy and it wasnt cheap!). i cant remember where i found the above mentioned article, but can try and backtrack it through my notes. the dagger was bought by by baron r.j.de touche-skadding, who bought it from the descendants of sultan hussain (1812-35). it originally belonged to the malay sultan abdhul rahman mirzam shah (first muslim sultan of the malacca empire), ruler of singapore and the rhio island. he was one of the first malay rulers to embrace islam. he was ancestor of mahmud shah 1st, whose grandson, sultan mahmud shah 2nd was defeated and lost the kingdom of malacca to the portuguese in 1511. becasuse of the tradition associated with that famous ancestor, this kris was held in high esteem by his descendants, who treasured it as an heirloom. the inscribed blade, silver crown at base of hilt and sheath of beaten silver are (apparantly) original parts of the Sultan abdhul rahmans kris, while the wooden hilts and sheath lining were renewed when the original parts became too worn for use. the above was copied from the article. he showed 3 images, which as expected from 1944, were of poor quality. it showed a kris with a silver inscription that runs the length of both sides of the blade. plus, a complete pic of it in its scabbard. now, i have no idea if the kris is authentic or not, but was curious if this particular dagger is well known, or if it has been published elsewhere. the article runs around 12 pages. hope this is of interest.

1st June 2006, 05:10 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Brian, Did you not forget the picture/pictures? Jens

1st June 2006, 07:10 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi jens, unfortunately i couldnt copy the article (sorry Shahrial). i stumbled across it whilst involved in reseraching something else and just didnt have time (its not a matter of taking it to a photocopying machine - much more complicted and time consuming). the reason i posted it was to get a response from the kris guys to see if its worth following up. it wont be easy to do, and will take time (and cost) so i only bother with articles of huge importance (and not passing interest). otherwise i sit there whenever i can and take notes. 2 weeks ago i had just two pages copied and it cost £5 and i had to wait a couple of hours (ok, it was a 250 year old book so not quite the same). is anyone familiar with this particular piece?

1st June 2006, 10:01 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hi Brian, Thanks for the pointers! Please give the full reference - maybe others can make xerox copies more easily... Regards, Kai

2nd June 2006, 01:59 AM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi kai, ok, i will try. i have to backtrack my thinking process at the time as i found this article in a book, which i found by looking for another book (if you know what i mean - i spend a lot of my time searching through obscure bibliographies) will post the full reference when i can find it. from memory it was a very obsure reference so may not be easy to find.