PENAI TORAJA FOR COMMENTS

Flavio · 7th May 2006, 02:04 PM

HELLO GUYS, I'M BACK WITH THIS BEAUTIFUL TORAJA PENAI. WHAT IS INTERESTING, APART THE BEAUTIFUL HANDLE IN HORN WITH FINE CARVINGS AND THE NICE SCABBARD, ARE THE SIGNS ON THE BACK OF THE BLADE: THERE ARE FIVE. WHAT DOES THEY MEAN? ARE SMITH'S MARKS OR SOME KIND OF NUMERATOR FOR PARTICULAR HUNTING (HEADHUNTING?)?

THE BLADE IS NICELY LAMINATED, MAYBE I HAVE TO ETCH IT.

MICHAEL THANK YOU AGAIN

VVV · 7th May 2006, 07:49 PM

Flavio,

I still have five Penai left so I took a look at them but none had this kind of marks?
In the old reference books on Torajan weapons unfortunately all focus seems to be on the different hilt and scabbard designs.

Michael

Flavio · 7th May 2006, 09:21 PM

Thank you Michael, these marks are indeed very interesting. Now this penai looks a little better with this fine blade, don't you think so? Thank you again

Lew · 8th May 2006, 05:29 AM

Flavio

Very nice sword!Do you think those marks could be battle scars?

Lew

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Flavio

Very nice sword!Do you think those marks could be battle scars?

Lew

Hi Lew, thank you. Yes could be... what do you think?

Ian · 8th May 2006, 04:35 PM

I agree with Lew. These seem to have the characteristics of scars caused by contact with a heavy edged weapon. The marks occur at varying intervals along the spine, and seem to have been struck downwards from the left of the person holding the blade. Note the different thickness of the incisions from left to right along the edge.

If this damage was inflicted in battle, I think the owner of this sword was in serious trouble and may not have survived.

Ian.

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

If this damage was inflicted in battle, I think the owner of this sword was in serious trouble and may not have survived.

WOW

a true fighting sword!!!! COOL

. POOR GUY, R.I.P.

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 05:12 PM

Hey just a moment... Now that I have watched with attention the signs,
it's clear that the marks are six. From hilt to point: one alone, 2 signs one close to the other, other two near one each other, and than one alone. More it seems clearly that the signs have been made with a movement from the hilt to the point of the blade. Maybe if they are battle scars the movent could be from point of blade to hilt, or not?

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 05:37 PM

Here are two pictures that shows better the marks, i hope

CharlesS · 8th May 2006, 06:37 PM

Lovely penai, nice blade and patina, and nice detail to the hilt carving.

Is the chape horn or wood?

We have to be careful with these. This type(though certainly not this one) is being reproduced or "newly created" these days and are sold as old or carefully worded as "vintage" or "older" . They are considerably lighter(thinner blades) than the older ones, and the not nearly as much attention paid to details. They are often aged with goo and gunk, but don't show the real age and patination that a good old sword does.

I think quite literally that someone is using Zonneveld's book as a catalog to reproduce rarer pieces by. So beware. They are not as prominent as they used to be on Ebay, but do show up sparingly.

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Is the chape horn or wood?

Sorry for my english CharlesS, but is the chape the end of the scabbard?
If yes, is made of wood. Thank you very much

ronpakis · 8th May 2006, 07:49 PM

hello,

i dont really think these are from a fight. they just look very much the same to each other and like flavio said are made in some "rythmic" way 1-2-2-1, (sorry my english is to poor to know a different way of saying this) sometimes people try to make things more interessting, perhaps somebody took a sword and made these "marks" (nothing negative about this sword!!) i dont see any other reason for these marks beiing there.

greetings from the netherlands, sander

VANDOO · 8th May 2006, 08:42 PM

THE MARKS ARE TOO UNIFORM TO HAVE BEEN MADE ACCIDENTALY OR IN COMBAT SO MUST HAVE SOME OTHER PURPOSE, MAKERS MARK, DECORATION OR SOMETHING.

THE WORKMANSHIP ON YOUR EXAMPLE IS GOOD AND SHOWS SOME TRUE AGE UNLIKE THE ONES BEING PRODUCED TODAY A LOT OF WHICH COME OUT OF BALI. I CAN'T JUDGE PATINA ON BLADE OR FITTINGS FROM A PICTURE SO CAN ONLY JUDGE WORKMANSHIP. A NICE EXAMPLE CONGRADULATIONS.

Flavio · 8th May 2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE MARKS ARE TOO UNIFORM TO HAVE BEEN MADE ACCIDENTALY OR IN COMBAT SO MUST HAVE SOME OTHER PURPOSE, MAKERS MARK, DECORATION OR SOMETHING.

THE WORKMANSHIP ON YOUR EXAMPLE IS GOOD AND SHOWS SOME TRUE AGE UNLIKE THE ONES BEING PRODUCED TODAY A LOT OF WHICH COME OUT OF BALI. I CAN'T JUDGE PATINA ON BLADE OR FITTINGS FROM A PICTURE SO CAN ONLY JUDGE WORKMANSHIP. A NICE EXAMPLE CONGRADULATIONS.

Thank you VANDOO. The blade was heavy patinated (rust) and the work was quite hard!!

7th May 2006, 02:04 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	PENAI TORAJA FOR COMMENTS HELLO GUYS, I'M BACK WITH THIS BEAUTIFUL TORAJA PENAI. WHAT IS INTERESTING, APART THE BEAUTIFUL HANDLE IN HORN WITH FINE CARVINGS AND THE NICE SCABBARD, ARE THE SIGNS ON THE BACK OF THE BLADE: THERE ARE FIVE. WHAT DOES THEY MEAN? ARE SMITH'S MARKS OR SOME KIND OF NUMERATOR FOR PARTICULAR HUNTING (HEADHUNTING?)? THE BLADE IS NICELY LAMINATED, MAYBE I HAVE TO ETCH IT. MICHAEL THANK YOU AGAIN Attached Images

8th May 2006, 05:37 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Here are two pictures that shows better the marks, i hope Attached Images

8th May 2006, 07:49 PM	#12
ronpakis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 75	fighting marks? hello, i dont really think these are from a fight. they just look very much the same to each other and like flavio said are made in some "rythmic" way 1-2-2-1, (sorry my english is to poor to know a different way of saying this) sometimes people try to make things more interessting, perhaps somebody took a sword and made these "marks" (nothing negative about this sword!!) i dont see any other reason for these marks beiing there. greetings from the netherlands, sander

7th May 2006, 07:49 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Flavio, I still have five Penai left so I took a look at them but none had this kind of marks? In the old reference books on Torajan weapons unfortunately all focus seems to be on the different hilt and scabbard designs. Michael

7th May 2006, 09:21 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Michael, these marks are indeed very interesting. Now this penai looks a little better with this fine blade, don't you think so? Thank you again

8th May 2006, 05:29 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Flavio Very nice sword!Do you think those marks could be battle scars? Lew

8th May 2006, 04:35 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	I agree with Lew. These seem to have the characteristics of scars caused by contact with a heavy edged weapon. The marks occur at varying intervals along the spine, and seem to have been struck downwards from the left of the person holding the blade. Note the different thickness of the incisions from left to right along the edge. If this damage was inflicted in battle, I think the owner of this sword was in serious trouble and may not have survived. Ian.

8th May 2006, 05:12 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hey just a moment... Now that I have watched with attention the signs, it's clear that the marks are six. From hilt to point: one alone, 2 signs one close to the other, other two near one each other, and than one alone. More it seems clearly that the signs have been made with a movement from the hilt to the point of the blade. Maybe if they are battle scars the movent could be from point of blade to hilt, or not?

8th May 2006, 06:37 PM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Lovely penai, nice blade and patina, and nice detail to the hilt carving. Is the chape horn or wood? We have to be careful with these. This type(though certainly not this one) is being reproduced or "newly created" these days and are sold as old or carefully worded as "vintage" or "older" . They are considerably lighter(thinner blades) than the older ones, and the not nearly as much attention paid to details. They are often aged with goo and gunk, but don't show the real age and patination that a good old sword does. I think quite literally that someone is using Zonneveld's book as a catalog to reproduce rarer pieces by. So beware. They are not as prominent as they used to be on Ebay, but do show up sparingly.

8th May 2006, 08:42 PM	#13
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE MARKS ARE TOO UNIFORM TO HAVE BEEN MADE ACCIDENTALY OR IN COMBAT SO MUST HAVE SOME OTHER PURPOSE, MAKERS MARK, DECORATION OR SOMETHING. THE WORKMANSHIP ON YOUR EXAMPLE IS GOOD AND SHOWS SOME TRUE AGE UNLIKE THE ONES BEING PRODUCED TODAY A LOT OF WHICH COME OUT OF BALI. I CAN'T JUDGE PATINA ON BLADE OR FITTINGS FROM A PICTURE SO CAN ONLY JUDGE WORKMANSHIP. A NICE EXAMPLE CONGRADULATIONS.