Help in identifying Sword

sadsmd · 24th March 2019, 02:40 AM

I discovered this sword in my late father in law's attic. I believe it to be an Ottoman Turkish sword but for the life of me I do not know why it has a Portepee on it.
My father in law was an officer in the US Army and served in Europe during WW2.

Any help in identifying and history of this sword is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Steve
Semper Fi

OsobistGB · 28th March 2019, 11:44 PM

Hi Steve,
The sword is artillery Ober-officer M 1882/1909 was in arms in the Ottoman Empire.The portepee is not Turkish and is probably added later.Perhaps it is Prussian but I can not be categorical

sadsmd · 29th March 2019, 02:39 AM

Thank you OsobistGB
Any idea what the inscription is?
Steve

Kubur · 29th March 2019, 10:57 AM

Yes it's Turkish
It's a German Turkish Ottoman sword WWI
you have also a serial number,might be the regiment.

kronckew · 29th March 2019, 11:55 AM

Side bit: The earlier Arabic style alphabet was replaced with a more western Latin style alphabet, with a few extra letters for sounds that do not get used in western languages, on 01JAN1929.

Swords and daggers/dirks) almost universally had sword knots/portepees as they are intended to aid in retention of a weapon accidentally dropped or jarred out of the hand. usually lost by the time a collector gets the item. As many nations admired and emulated the Prussians - this sword being of similar design to their modified Blucher style derived from the UK 1796LC, a Prussian style sword knot would not be out of place.

Many officers replaced the sword knot with a silk scarf tied to the sword with a loop for their hand, I presume for it's lightness and strength & for not getting their formal parade one dirty or covered in red stuff.

A Prussian sword knot:

sadsmd · 29th March 2019, 05:16 PM

Thank you, you have been very helpful.
Steve

kronckew · 30th March 2019, 09:26 AM

You're welcome, nice sword by the way, looks like it's been looked after and is in great condition. I've seen a couple in auctions here in the UK that I bid on, but did not win. They were described as ''WW1 Turkish Officer's swords" as Kubar has mentioned...

kahnjar1 · 30th March 2019, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Yes it's Turkish
It's a German Turkish Ottoman sword WWI
you have also a serial number,might be the regiment.

The inscription MAY BE Turkish but the 4 punch marks underneath are definitely Arabic numbers and read 2179. Not a date obviously, but perhaps an armoury number.
Stu

kronckew · 30th March 2019, 09:50 AM

Yup, definitely not a Hijri date, a better photo of the inscription on its own would be useful. As would a photo of the entire sword out of the scabbard and next to it.

sadsmd · 30th March 2019, 05:46 PM

Thank you for all your comments. Very educational

!

Here are a few photos you asked for. I hope they're better.
Thanks,
Steve

OsobistGB · 30th March 2019, 10:43 PM

The stamp is the manufacturer and the year.Here is a table with the most commonly used manufacturers

kahnjar1 · 31st March 2019, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsobistGB

The stamp is the manufacturer and the year.Here is a table with the most commonly used manufacturers

The Arabic number shown on the blade is definitely NOT the year.........

24th March 2019, 02:40 AM	#1
sadsmd Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: NC Posts: 12	Help in identifying Sword I discovered this sword in my late father in law's attic. I believe it to be an Ottoman Turkish sword but for the life of me I do not know why it has a Portepee on it. My father in law was an officer in the US Army and served in Europe during WW2. Any help in identifying and history of this sword is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Steve Semper Fi Attached Images

29th March 2019, 11:55 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Side bit: The earlier Arabic style alphabet was replaced with a more western Latin style alphabet, with a few extra letters for sounds that do not get used in western languages, on 01JAN1929. Swords and daggers/dirks) almost universally had sword knots/portepees as they are intended to aid in retention of a weapon accidentally dropped or jarred out of the hand. usually lost by the time a collector gets the item. As many nations admired and emulated the Prussians - this sword being of similar design to their modified Blucher style derived from the UK 1796LC, a Prussian style sword knot would not be out of place. Many officers replaced the sword knot with a silk scarf tied to the sword with a loop for their hand, I presume for it's lightness and strength & for not getting their formal parade one dirty or covered in red stuff. A Prussian sword knot: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 29th March 2019 at 12:22 PM.

30th March 2019, 05:46 PM	#10
sadsmd Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: NC Posts: 12	Thank you for all your comments. Very educational ! Here are a few photos you asked for. I hope they're better. Thanks, Steve Attached Images

30th March 2019, 10:43 PM	#11
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 94	The stamp is the manufacturer and the year.Here is a table with the most commonly used manufacturers Attached Images

28th March 2019, 11:44 PM	#2
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 94	Hi Steve, The sword is artillery Ober-officer M 1882/1909 was in arms in the Ottoman Empire.The portepee is not Turkish and is probably added later.Perhaps it is Prussian but I can not be categorical

29th March 2019, 02:39 AM	#3
sadsmd Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: NC Posts: 12	Thank you OsobistGB Any idea what the inscription is? Steve

29th March 2019, 10:57 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Yes it's Turkish It's a German Turkish Ottoman sword WWI you have also a serial number,might be the regiment.

29th March 2019, 05:16 PM	#6
sadsmd Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: NC Posts: 12	Thank you, you have been very helpful. Steve

30th March 2019, 09:26 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	You're welcome, nice sword by the way, looks like it's been looked after and is in great condition. I've seen a couple in auctions here in the UK that I bid on, but did not win. They were described as ''WW1 Turkish Officer's swords" as Kubar has mentioned...

30th March 2019, 09:50 AM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Yup, definitely not a Hijri date, a better photo of the inscription on its own would be useful. As would a photo of the entire sword out of the scabbard and next to it.