Keris with an old warangka in Gabilan style.

Athanase · 13th January 2019, 06:26 PM

Hello,

I bought this keris for sheath without even seeing his blade.
The warangka is in the Gabilan style with a very thick brass pendok (1mm thick minimum) with a strong hook.

The blade was a pleasant surprise because it is old and little damaged and elegant. But I think it looks more like a Central Java blade than a blade from Madura. In addition the sheath was clearly not made for this blade.

The Mendak is made of brass and is partially covered with a "brick" color paint. I have supposed that it may have been varnish if the wood of the sheath was refinished without removing the blade.

The handle is in a style that I appreciate very much, but I find that the quality of his carving is much more crude than the warangka. In addition I do not remember having already seen this type of handle associated with this type of warangka.

All these details make me think that Keris is a mix even if this mixture seems old.

Jean · 14th January 2019, 09:46 AM

Hello Athanase,
This style of cylindrical floral hilt is common in Madura/ East Java, see pics.
Regards

Athanase · 14th January 2019, 10:30 AM

Oh yes, it's very common

(I have 2 other Keris with this type of handle, but Ladrang warangka type).
It's just the association with this type of Warangka that I didn't remember having seen before. In addition, if the handle and the warangka seems to be made of the same wood, it's the difference in quality of the carving that put me in doubt.
I love this keris, but I just wanted to submit to your opinions some details that surprised me.

kai · 14th January 2019, 07:20 PM

Hello Séverin,

There seems to have been some flux between North coast and eastern Jawa (no wonder considering the trade).

It looks like there was some resin narrowing the scabbard (now mostly crumbled away)? If so, the blade may have been married to the scabbard for quite some time already. The hilt could use a ferrule/selut and possibly a slightly smaller eastern mendak. I believe the ensemble could live happily ever after...

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 14th January 2019, 09:10 PM

I find the warangka and hilt very nice but I am less convinced by the blade quality

, especially the poor greneng carving and the luks appear uneven on the pics, particularly the last one.
Regards

Athanase · 15th January 2019, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

I find the warangka and hilt very nice but I am less convinced by the blade quality

, especially the poor greneng carving and the luks appear uneven on the pics, particularly the last one.
Regards

Indeed, I didn't notice this detail but the luks are a little irregular. For the last luk this is refuted by the fact that there is a significant lack on the edge.
The greneng is very simple and in addition to being eroded. I agree that this is clearly not a premium blade but I like it, especially because his pamor is still apparent (which is rarely the case on keris that I find

).

Athanase · 15th January 2019, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Séverin,

There seems to have been some flux between North coast and eastern Jawa (no wonder considering the trade).

It looks like there was some resin narrowing the scabbard (now mostly crumbled away)? If so, the blade may have been married to the scabbard for quite some time already. The hilt could use a ferrule/selut and possibly a slightly smaller eastern mendak. I believe the ensemble could live happily ever after...

Regards,
Kai

Yes the opening of the sheath has been narrowed with resin / wax to fit a blade smaller than the original one.

I have old mendak from East Java but they are very distorted

.
For the selut, to find an old one that would adapt to the handle is impossible mission, it would be necessary to make a new one.

David · 15th January 2019, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

For the selut, to find an old one that would adapt to the handle is impossible mission, it would be necessary to make a new one.

While it might not be best from a purest standpoint, i would think that you could. no doubt, find a silversmith near you who could manufacture a plain silver selut like this one for not very much money (respectively).

Athanase · 15th January 2019, 10:17 AM

Silver or brass? I hesitate.
The advantage of brass is that its color will match that of the pendok.

kai · 15th January 2019, 02:38 PM

Hello Séverin,

Quote:

Silver or brass? I hesitate.
The advantage of brass is that its color will match that of the pendok.

Silver will yield a much nicer selut (brass is tougher to work with and will be thicker).

With a slightly larger base from the selut, even your current mendak may suffice (and mirror the brass on the scabbard). I'd like to hear some input from Alan on this suitability issue though before embarking on any restoration...

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 15th January 2019, 08:59 PM

OK Kai, you got me.

Alan would do absolutely nothing with this keris, except to tidy it up.

I'd start with the blade, demount from the hilt, scrub with toothbrush and mineral turpentine, then soak with WD40, give it a few days of repeated WD40 sprays, work over it and try to remove as much dirt and surface rust as I could. I would not go the full strip and re-stain route unless I was doing this in Jawa.

Clean up the wood, hilt and scabbard with toothbrush and baby oil. Demount the pendok, soak in vinegar --- about a day would be enough I think, rinse thoroughly, polish with 0000 steel wool.

The mendak would get a vinegar soak for maybe a day, then rinse thoroughly and lightly polish with 0000 steel wool.

If I was in Solo I might, only might, consider getting a silver selut made. If I was doing this work anywhere else I would not even consider a silver selut because I do not know any silver workers outside of Solo who could do the job at a price that would not over capitalise this keris.

Silver workers whom I do know in both Australia and Bali seem to think that their work is major art, and they charge accordingly --- and one of the Aussies I know is a good friend. Think about it:- how long for a silver smith to make this little selut? He's never even seen one before, he's got no model, just a picture. Let's say he is extremely skilled and incredibly perceptive, a real gem amongst silver smiths, lets say it takes him an hour.

In Australia one hour of an experienced silver smith's time is worth around $AUD30. But that wage rate is what he would be paid by a regular employer, a self employed artisan would undoubtedly charge more for a one-off nuisance job.

The value of the silver itself is not much, silver is around 50 cents a gram, in a selut like this I'd guess maybe 15 grams, so say $7 or $8.

Total cost $37.

Then you've got the other overheads like fuel to get to and from the silver smith, the time and money spent in finding somebody who can do the job and is willing to do the job, telephone calls, your own lost time.

Real total cost is now how much? In my own case if I were to undertake to put a silver selut on this hilt , here in Australia, the total real cost of the job would be over $100.

As I said, I might consider putting a selut on it if I were in Solo, but before I did, I'd need to estimate how much I could sell it for with a selut, and without a selut. It would sell easier with a selut, but I doubt that it would sell at all if I needed to load the "without" price with just the bare real cost of putting a selut on it , even if it was done in Solo.

My recommendation is to clean this keris up, tidy it up, and forget the selut.

OK, true, this is a rather hard-line approach, but the simple fact is this:- sooner or later most collectors grow past their present state of appreciation and reach a higher level. When that happens they look at the lower end of their collection and consider sale, usually in order to finance higher value pieces. If we sell something we normally want to get back at least what we paid for it. Unless the purchase price of this keris was remarkably low, putting a silver selut on it would make getting our investment in it back in cash an almost possible task.

13th January 2019, 06:26 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Keris with an old warangka in Gabilan style. Hello, I bought this keris for sheath without even seeing his blade. The warangka is in the Gabilan style with a very thick brass pendok (1mm thick minimum) with a strong hook. The blade was a pleasant surprise because it is old and little damaged and elegant. But I think it looks more like a Central Java blade than a blade from Madura. In addition the sheath was clearly not made for this blade. The Mendak is made of brass and is partially covered with a "brick" color paint. I have supposed that it may have been varnish if the wood of the sheath was refinished without removing the blade. The handle is in a style that I appreciate very much, but I find that the quality of his carving is much more crude than the warangka. In addition I do not remember having already seen this type of handle associated with this type of warangka. All these details make me think that Keris is a mix even if this mixture seems old. Attached Images

14th January 2019, 09:46 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Athanase, This style of cylindrical floral hilt is common in Madura/ East Java, see pics. Regards Attached Images

14th January 2019, 10:30 AM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Oh yes, it's very common (I have 2 other Keris with this type of handle, but Ladrang warangka type). It's just the association with this type of Warangka that I didn't remember having seen before. In addition, if the handle and the warangka seems to be made of the same wood, it's the difference in quality of the carving that put me in doubt. I love this keris, but I just wanted to submit to your opinions some details that surprised me.

14th January 2019, 07:20 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Séverin, There seems to have been some flux between North coast and eastern Jawa (no wonder considering the trade). It looks like there was some resin narrowing the scabbard (now mostly crumbled away)? If so, the blade may have been married to the scabbard for quite some time already. The hilt could use a ferrule/selut and possibly a slightly smaller eastern mendak. I believe the ensemble could live happily ever after... Regards, Kai

14th January 2019, 09:10 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I find the warangka and hilt very nice but I am less convinced by the blade quality , especially the poor greneng carving and the luks appear uneven on the pics, particularly the last one. Regards

15th January 2019, 10:17 AM	#9
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Silver or brass? I hesitate. The advantage of brass is that its color will match that of the pendok.

15th January 2019, 08:59 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,894	OK Kai, you got me. Alan would do absolutely nothing with this keris, except to tidy it up. I'd start with the blade, demount from the hilt, scrub with toothbrush and mineral turpentine, then soak with WD40, give it a few days of repeated WD40 sprays, work over it and try to remove as much dirt and surface rust as I could. I would not go the full strip and re-stain route unless I was doing this in Jawa. Clean up the wood, hilt and scabbard with toothbrush and baby oil. Demount the pendok, soak in vinegar --- about a day would be enough I think, rinse thoroughly, polish with 0000 steel wool. The mendak would get a vinegar soak for maybe a day, then rinse thoroughly and lightly polish with 0000 steel wool. If I was in Solo I might, only might, consider getting a silver selut made. If I was doing this work anywhere else I would not even consider a silver selut because I do not know any silver workers outside of Solo who could do the job at a price that would not over capitalise this keris. Silver workers whom I do know in both Australia and Bali seem to think that their work is major art, and they charge accordingly --- and one of the Aussies I know is a good friend. Think about it:- how long for a silver smith to make this little selut? He's never even seen one before, he's got no model, just a picture. Let's say he is extremely skilled and incredibly perceptive, a real gem amongst silver smiths, lets say it takes him an hour. In Australia one hour of an experienced silver smith's time is worth around $AUD30. But that wage rate is what he would be paid by a regular employer, a self employed artisan would undoubtedly charge more for a one-off nuisance job. The value of the silver itself is not much, silver is around 50 cents a gram, in a selut like this I'd guess maybe 15 grams, so say $7 or $8. Total cost $37. Then you've got the other overheads like fuel to get to and from the silver smith, the time and money spent in finding somebody who can do the job and is willing to do the job, telephone calls, your own lost time. Real total cost is now how much? In my own case if I were to undertake to put a silver selut on this hilt , here in Australia, the total real cost of the job would be over $100. As I said, I might consider putting a selut on it if I were in Solo, but before I did, I'd need to estimate how much I could sell it for with a selut, and without a selut. It would sell easier with a selut, but I doubt that it would sell at all if I needed to load the "without" price with just the bare real cost of putting a selut on it , even if it was done in Solo. My recommendation is to clean this keris up, tidy it up, and forget the selut. OK, true, this is a rather hard-line approach, but the simple fact is this:- sooner or later most collectors grow past their present state of appreciation and reach a higher level. When that happens they look at the lower end of their collection and consider sale, usually in order to finance higher value pieces. If we sell something we normally want to get back at least what we paid for it. Unless the purchase price of this keris was remarkably low, putting a silver selut on it would make getting our investment in it back in cash an almost possible task.