Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 13th September 2017, 06:38 PM   #1
Cerjak
Member
 
Cerjak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
Default Pesh Kabz dagger dated 1872

Pesh Kabz dagger with long blade circa 36 cm dated 1872.
The blade show some signs of delamination
any comment on it will be welcome.
Attached Images
    
Cerjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2017, 06:48 PM   #2
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Afghan? I say this as the hilt looks a bit crude for Indian standards.

Last edited by estcrh; 14th September 2017 at 08:44 AM.
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2017, 01:30 PM   #3
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

GREETINGS CERJAK,
VERY INTERESTING DAGGER,ITS SAYS NEEMUICH[ANGLASISED],WHICH IS ACTUALLY NEEMUCH OR NIMACH A TOWN IN THE MALWA REGION OF THE INDIAN STATE OF MADHYA PRADESH,CENTRAL INDIA
FORMERLY A LARGE BRITISH CANTONMENT OF GWALIOR PRINCELY STATE.
SO IT VERY MUCH A INDIAN DAGGER
REGARDS
RAJESH
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #4
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BANDOOK
GREETINGS CERJAK,
VERY INTERESTING DAGGER,ITS SAYS NEEMUICH[ANGLASISED],WHICH IS ACTUALLY NEEMUCH OR NIMACH A TOWN IN THE MALWA REGION OF THE INDIAN STATE OF MADHYA PRADESH,CENTRAL INDIA
FORMERLY A LARGE BRITISH CANTONMENT OF GWALIOR PRINCELY STATE.
SO IT VERY MUCH A INDIAN DAGGER
REGARDS
RAJESH
An inscription can be put on at any time and place so it does not necessarily represent were it was actually produced. While it certainly could be Indian I usually see better workmanship on Indian daggers. Here is a similar hilt of an Indian karud dagger.
Attached Images
   
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2017, 11:18 PM   #5
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

It must be wootz: the "crack" along the spine is the outcome of cutting the ingot, bending it upon itself to allow its bottom to become the exterior of the blade and hiding the "dirty" part of the ingot inside. Usually, such a crack was filled with soft metal wire.

Polish and etch it.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 03:18 PM   #6
Cerjak
Member
 
Cerjak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
Default

about the owner : He was in India( Bombay in 1865 ) and later at Kandahar

Henry Waghorn was born on 2 February 1838, and appointed Assistant Surgeon on 31 March 1865. He became Surgeon in May 1873, and Surgeon Major in May 1887. During the Afghan War of 1879-80, he was in charge of No. 1 Field Hospital at Kandahar from February to September 1880. He was present during the siege and was employed in treating the casualties brought in from Maiwand and Deh Khojah, and was in charge of a dressing station during the battle of Kandahar. He subsequently went to South Africa where he took part in the Boer War of 1881. Promoted to Surgeon Lieutenant-Colonel on 31 March 1885, he was placed on Half Pay in August 1891, and died at Newport, Monmouthshire, on 2 February 1893.
Attached Images
   
Cerjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 04:41 PM   #7
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

This man served in the hottest locations.
I do not think we can say with any degree of certainty whether this Pesh Kabz was made in India ( by whatever definition the Brits called it then) or in Afghanistan. A good chunk of Northwestern Frontier ( then India, currently Pakistan) is populated by Pushtuns. Assigning superior skills to " Indians" vs. "Afghanis" is hopeless: there were better and worse masters everywhere, independent of their ethnic origins.
I would just cautiously place it within the Northwestern Frontier and leave it there. But its authenticity and ownership are proven beyond any doubt.

Good find!
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2017, 12:41 AM   #8
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerjak
about the owner : He was in India( Bombay in 1865 ) and later at Kandahar

Henry Waghorn was born on 2 February 1838, and appointed Assistant Surgeon on 31 March 1865. He became Surgeon in May 1873, and Surgeon Major in May 1887. During the Afghan War of 1879-80, he was in charge of No. 1 Field Hospital at Kandahar from February to September 1880. He was present during the siege and was employed in treating the casualties brought in from Maiwand and Deh Khojah, and was in charge of a dressing station during the battle of Kandahar. He subsequently went to South Africa where he took part in the Boer War of 1881. Promoted to Surgeon Lieutenant-Colonel on 31 March 1885, he was placed on Half Pay in August 1891, and died at Newport, Monmouthshire, on 2 February 1893.
Good detective work!!!
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.