A northern Malay pedang - Pattani?

kai · 26th July 2017, 06:26 PM

This blade type seems widely distributed among coastal Malay cultures; even Batak examples are known (possibly refitted blades introduced by trade or as gift from neighbouring rulers): A relatively long, broad, and flexible blade with somewhat obtuse tip and a sharpened back edge (often about half of the length); usually with nicely pattern-welded pamor that looks indigenous to me. Some blades are more slender, fully edged, and/or come with fuller(s). Malay Chenangkas also often seem to come with similar blades.

This example has a well-controlled pamor mlumah with subtle/calm patterning and on top of this a pattern-welded "…XIIIXIIIX…” motif: This motif is commonly seen engraved or inlaid at the back of blades; here it is done in a similar way at the side of the blade as part of the forging work. Need to bring it out with a fresh etch, I guess.

This type of pommel with a rather obvious head and its distinct features is a variant of the ubiquitous Makara form and originates from the northern Malay culture, probably Pattani and neighbouring sultanates. Horn with old remnants of Melayu dragonblood paint visible inside the mouth; silver fittings and an old tassel. A closely related pommel type is known from Pattani nobility badek (cp. Spirit of Wood, p. 152).

Also note the heavy bolster (thickness 12.6 mm = 1/2”) in front of the guard!

Regards,
Kai
(Pictures courtesy of our forumite kino since I have yet to receive this piece obtained early this year - thanks heaps for your help, Albert!)

kai · 26th July 2017, 06:38 PM

Here is another example of this type from Charles vast vault!

#6 in his classic thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4682
(An update would be greatly appreciated, Charles!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

6. Very unusual form with a fine blade and a more rare (that they survive!!) wooden hilt in wayang form.

Blade and pommel of the same type; silver guard and grip of the widely distributed type. Note also similarities of the scabbard! [Pommel not wayang-based though.]

Regards,
Kai

kai · 26th July 2017, 06:48 PM

A blade with very similar shape and pamor; no bolster:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22865

kai · 26th July 2017, 07:03 PM

A more slender blade as commonly seen with Chenangkas:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16579

kai · 26th July 2017, 07:09 PM

Another Chenangkas with pamor blade:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17534

kai · 26th July 2017, 07:24 PM

One more example: A similar blade in Batak fittings.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 26th July 2017, 07:29 PM

P.S.: The latter 3 examples are just for comparison...

Sajen · 27th July 2017, 08:09 PM

Hello Kai,

crazy that you don't have received any comments until now!

A truly beautiful sword you have acquired there, love the beautiful carved Makara handle. And you have done a very good research and the Malay origin seems to be a very good possibility also when the Makara from the Malay badek look slightly different but I can't offer a better origin from your nice pedang. Sadly the handle missing it's upper handle sleeve. Again, a truly beauty!

Regards,
Detlef

Gustav · 27th July 2017, 10:04 PM

Kai, a very nice sword.

Only one thing - the metal sleeves and the motif on them is what we often seen on refurbished Minang and Palembang Kerisses coming out of post WWII Sumatra. I see the reason, why these could be Malayan, but... am not 100% sure about it.

Battara · 27th July 2017, 11:58 PM

So Gustav you are saying that these type of silver scabbard mounts are more recent?

BTW - Love the blades

Gustav · 28th July 2017, 09:02 AM

Jose, I am referring only to the metal mounts on the first Pedang -

- yes.

Battara · 29th July 2017, 12:51 AM

That's the one Gustav, thank you.

kai · 29th July 2017, 01:56 AM

Hello Detlef,

Thanks for your comments and keeping the ball rolling!

Quote:

the Malay origin seems to be a very good possibility also when the Makara from the Malay badek look slightly different

Some details are quite similar, some others are missing though, indeed.

Note that the pommel size is different; utilizing horn also necessitates some changes at the mouth/etc. due to the hollow core as does functionality as a sword hilt.

Swords with these naturalistic makara pommel seem to be exceedingly rare and I've yet to find any well-provenanced examples. Given the differences between mine and Charles' pieces (and more differences compared to northern Malayan badek), I agree that we need to keep an open mind and more data.

Quote:

Sadly the handle missing it's upper handle sleeve.

That's quite possible! I need to examine it personally to check for any hints...

The tassel seems to have some age - I'd guess that the current configuration has been in use for a while (post-WW2?).

Regards,
Kai

kai · 29th July 2017, 02:04 AM

Thanks, Gustav!

Quote:

the metal sleeves and the motif on them is what we often seen on refurbished Minang and Palembang Kerisses coming out of post WWII Sumatra. I see the reason, why these could be Malayan, but... am not 100% sure about it.

I don't have close-ups of the scabbard bands yet; assuming that they approximate the ferrule, you have a point, indeed. I need to research this some more!

Charles, could you please post close-ups of the scabbard (sword from post #2), please?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 29th July 2017, 02:09 AM

Quote:

BTW - Love the blades

Thanks, Jose! The ones that I handled also exhibited a neat balance.

I'll try to post some more pics after cleaning and etching...

Regards,
Kai

sakimori · 29th July 2017, 07:30 AM

Love the pommel of "Makara"...great carving and really COOL figure

26th July 2017, 06:26 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	A northern Malay pedang - Pattani? This blade type seems widely distributed among coastal Malay cultures; even Batak examples are known (possibly refitted blades introduced by trade or as gift from neighbouring rulers): A relatively long, broad, and flexible blade with somewhat obtuse tip and a sharpened back edge (often about half of the length); usually with nicely pattern-welded pamor that looks indigenous to me. Some blades are more slender, fully edged, and/or come with fuller(s). Malay Chenangkas also often seem to come with similar blades. This example has a well-controlled pamor mlumah with subtle/calm patterning and on top of this a pattern-welded "…XIIIXIIIX…” motif: This motif is commonly seen engraved or inlaid at the back of blades; here it is done in a similar way at the side of the blade as part of the forging work. Need to bring it out with a fresh etch, I guess. This type of pommel with a rather obvious head and its distinct features is a variant of the ubiquitous Makara form and originates from the northern Malay culture, probably Pattani and neighbouring sultanates. Horn with old remnants of Melayu dragonblood paint visible inside the mouth; silver fittings and an old tassel. A closely related pommel type is known from Pattani nobility badek (cp. Spirit of Wood, p. 152). Also note the heavy bolster (thickness 12.6 mm = 1/2”) in front of the guard! Regards, Kai (Pictures courtesy of our forumite kino since I have yet to receive this piece obtained early this year - thanks heaps for your help, Albert!) Attached Images

26th July 2017, 06:48 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Pedang Melayu A blade with very similar shape and pamor; no bolster: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22865 Attached Images

26th July 2017, 07:03 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Malay Chenangkas A more slender blade as commonly seen with Chenangkas: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16579 Attached Images

26th July 2017, 07:09 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Malay Chenangkas Another Chenangkas with pamor blade: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17534 Attached Images

26th July 2017, 07:24 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Batak Pedang (Piso Podang with variant fittings) One more example: A similar blade in Batak fittings. Regards, Kai Attached Images

26th July 2017, 07:29 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	P.S.: The latter 3 examples are just for comparison...

27th July 2017, 08:09 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hello Kai, crazy that you don't have received any comments until now! A truly beautiful sword you have acquired there, love the beautiful carved Makara handle. And you have done a very good research and the Malay origin seems to be a very good possibility also when the Makara from the Malay badek look slightly different but I can't offer a better origin from your nice pedang. Sadly the handle missing it's upper handle sleeve. Again, a truly beauty! Regards, Detlef

27th July 2017, 10:04 PM	#9
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	Kai, a very nice sword. Only one thing - the metal sleeves and the motif on them is what we often seen on refurbished Minang and Palembang Kerisses coming out of post WWII Sumatra. I see the reason, why these could be Malayan, but... am not 100% sure about it.

27th July 2017, 11:58 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	So Gustav you are saying that these type of silver scabbard mounts are more recent? BTW - Love the blades

28th July 2017, 09:02 AM	#11
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	Jose, I am referring only to the metal mounts on the first Pedang - - yes.

29th July 2017, 12:51 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	That's the one Gustav, thank you.

29th July 2017, 07:30 AM	#16
sakimori Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 26	Love the pommel of "Makara"...great carving and really COOL figure