Not sure about this Philippine barong ...

twdroppoint2 · 23rd April 2017, 03:41 AM

Hello ! First I'd like to apologize for having only the one picture ... I saw this item at an estate sale and haven't purchased it (yet), and they allowed me to take a picture but I didn't want to push my luck and take all manner of pictures of it.

Like I said, I saw this at an estate sale ... my first thought is that it was a barong, perhaps WW2. The estate sale company couldn't give me any insight into the original owner of the house really, they couldn't tell me if he was a WW2 vet for example, however the items they were selling were all from the 20's to the 70's really, so I suppose he could have been a WW2 vet. Anyways, to the knife:

The blade is about 16", very heavy and thick, no markings except for the name "Martin" scratched into it. Very sharp on the blade edge. The hilt is *maybe* some type of wood ? The collar on the shank is a metal ... the knife is very stable in the hilt, no play whatsoever.

The sheath is mostly wood, very thin, with metal.

The hilt is so simple and non decorative ... I was wondering what region this might come from, as well as the possible dating ? I doubt it's a "souvenir" type of weapon, but could it be ? Most of the barong's I'm looking up have much more elaborate hilts and such, this one is so non-descript.

Any help in properly identifying the era/region of this machete would be much appreciated. I don't want to purchase it if it's more of a souvenir type item or something. Thanks ! Hopefully I'll hear back before tomorrow my time, as the sale ends tomorrow (Apr 23rd). Thanks again

twdroppoint2 · 26th April 2017, 03:57 AM

Well I went back the next day, and someone had purchased the knife unfortunately. So I suppose this thread is a dead end anyways.

My main questions about the knife, however, were trying to identify it's likely origins a bit more specifically ... where in the Philippines, perhaps what time frame to look at, etc. The very basic nature of the hilt and sheath seemed tricky to me ... the ones I studied were more ornate, complex, etc.

I'd still love to hear any thoughts of anyone with knowledge ... but if I get no responses, no worries

Thanks !

Sajen · 26th April 2017, 10:34 PM

Hello twdroppoint2,

first, it isn't a barong, second, don't be to sad that you don't get it.

Went the tang conplete through the hilt? From the blade shape it look like a Visayan it look like a talibon but the handle more like a Luzon knife. But I doubt that it is very old.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 27th April 2017, 01:38 AM

I agree with everything Detlef said.

The hilt is painted wood and the scabbard is made of narra wood according to the pictures. The scabbard does look Visayan-ish to me as well as the blade.

Ian · 27th April 2017, 06:56 AM

Hi tw:

Sorry you missed out on this one. In the late 1990s I had the opportunity to visit the Jungle Environment Survival Training (JEST) facility on Bataan Peninsula near Subic Bay in Central Luzon not far outside Manila. The instructors there carried work knives that were similar to the one you show, with similar scabbards. The hilts and scabbards were painted either red or black (not sure what the significance of the red or black meant). They were all Aeta men (also referred to as Negritos) and called their knife an itak (which is Tagalog for knife/bolo).

JEST was set up by the US military, but when the last of the US soldiers left the facility was taken over by the Philippines Army. It was being used sporadically for training when I visited. I got to talking with one of the instructors and he gave me one of his old, very well used knives that he no longer had any use for. It was a generous gift because the steel is usually recycled into another knife. It was a heavy bladed, fat belly bolo like the one you show, in a worn wooden scabbard that had been painted black at one time although the paint had largely chipped off. One of my kids now uses it as a camp knife. Still holds a good edge.

I think the knife you show is one of these mid- to late-20th C. jungle knives. Nothing very special but a good solid work knife.

Ian.

Sajen · 27th April 2017, 08:34 PM

Very interesting information, thank you Ian!

twdroppoint2 · 29th April 2017, 03:20 PM

Excellent excellent ! Thank you all for the input ! My initial instinct was that it was a more "commoner" knife, which is why I didn't buy it the first day, but I did think it was a barong because of the shape. The simplicity of the hilt threw me off though, since it did look like cheap wood, and the scabbard as well. Glad I didn't purchase it

Thanks again to everyone !

23rd April 2017, 03:41 AM	#1
twdroppoint2 Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10	Not sure about this Philippine barong ... Hello ! First I'd like to apologize for having only the one picture ... I saw this item at an estate sale and haven't purchased it (yet), and they allowed me to take a picture but I didn't want to push my luck and take all manner of pictures of it. Like I said, I saw this at an estate sale ... my first thought is that it was a barong, perhaps WW2. The estate sale company couldn't give me any insight into the original owner of the house really, they couldn't tell me if he was a WW2 vet for example, however the items they were selling were all from the 20's to the 70's really, so I suppose he could have been a WW2 vet. Anyways, to the knife: The blade is about 16", very heavy and thick, no markings except for the name "Martin" scratched into it. Very sharp on the blade edge. The hilt is maybe some type of wood ? The collar on the shank is a metal ... the knife is very stable in the hilt, no play whatsoever. The sheath is mostly wood, very thin, with metal. The hilt is so simple and non decorative ... I was wondering what region this might come from, as well as the possible dating ? I doubt it's a "souvenir" type of weapon, but could it be ? Most of the barong's I'm looking up have much more elaborate hilts and such, this one is so non-descript. Any help in properly identifying the era/region of this machete would be much appreciated. I don't want to purchase it if it's more of a souvenir type item or something. Thanks ! Hopefully I'll hear back before tomorrow my time, as the sale ends tomorrow (Apr 23rd). Thanks again Attached Images

27th April 2017, 06:56 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi tw: Sorry you missed out on this one. In the late 1990s I had the opportunity to visit the Jungle Environment Survival Training (JEST) facility on Bataan Peninsula near Subic Bay in Central Luzon not far outside Manila. The instructors there carried work knives that were similar to the one you show, with similar scabbards. The hilts and scabbards were painted either red or black (not sure what the significance of the red or black meant). They were all Aeta men (also referred to as Negritos) and called their knife an itak (which is Tagalog for knife/bolo). JEST was set up by the US military, but when the last of the US soldiers left the facility was taken over by the Philippines Army. It was being used sporadically for training when I visited. I got to talking with one of the instructors and he gave me one of his old, very well used knives that he no longer had any use for. It was a generous gift because the steel is usually recycled into another knife. It was a heavy bladed, fat belly bolo like the one you show, in a worn wooden scabbard that had been painted black at one time although the paint had largely chipped off. One of my kids now uses it as a camp knife. Still holds a good edge. I think the knife you show is one of these mid- to late-20th C. jungle knives. Nothing very special but a good solid work knife. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 28th April 2017 at 03:41 PM.

26th April 2017, 03:57 AM	#2
twdroppoint2 Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10	Well I went back the next day, and someone had purchased the knife unfortunately. So I suppose this thread is a dead end anyways. My main questions about the knife, however, were trying to identify it's likely origins a bit more specifically ... where in the Philippines, perhaps what time frame to look at, etc. The very basic nature of the hilt and sheath seemed tricky to me ... the ones I studied were more ornate, complex, etc. I'd still love to hear any thoughts of anyone with knowledge ... but if I get no responses, no worries Thanks !

26th April 2017, 10:34 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello twdroppoint2, first, it isn't a barong, second, don't be to sad that you don't get it. Went the tang conplete through the hilt? From the blade shape it look like a Visayan it look like a talibon but the handle more like a Luzon knife. But I doubt that it is very old. Regards, Detlef

27th April 2017, 01:38 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I agree with everything Detlef said. The hilt is painted wood and the scabbard is made of narra wood according to the pictures. The scabbard does look Visayan-ish to me as well as the blade.

27th April 2017, 08:34 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Very interesting information, thank you Ian!

29th April 2017, 03:20 PM	#7
twdroppoint2 Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10	Excellent excellent ! Thank you all for the input ! My initial instinct was that it was a more "commoner" knife, which is why I didn't buy it the first day, but I did think it was a barong because of the shape. The simplicity of the hilt threw me off though, since it did look like cheap wood, and the scabbard as well. Glad I didn't purchase it Thanks again to everyone !