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#1 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
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Siege Weight Lobster Tailed Pot with a crowned IR stamp , the two-piece skull with pivoting pointed peak and three-bar face-guard, ear-pieces certainly associated .
Any comment on it will be welcome. |
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#2 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Grrrreat piece !
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#3 |
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Thank you Fernando
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#4 |
Arms Historian
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As an arms historian, and in that regard, a complete novice (at best) on armour, I became curious with this intriguing helmet, and while wanting to ask questions, decided to do some research to learn more on these.
For other uninitiated in the field of study of armour (obviously including myself), I wanted to add these notes. This type of helmet apparently developed in Europe, deriving from the Turkish 'chichak' of similar form with nasal, neck guard, ear coverings etc.. I believe most probably Poland, began their own versions and termed them 'zischagge' (German from the Turkish term for these). The Polish 'Winged Hussars' had their often elaborate versions of these in the 16th century. In the 17th century these were often termed 'harquebusier' pots or helmets, as they were typically worn by the light cavalry called 'harquebusiers' for the 'arquebus' guns they used. These helmets were also worn by pikemen. During the English Civil Wars 1642-51, these were of course prevalent, and I found that while many of these helmets were made in England, numbers of them, predominantly Dutch were brought in, mostly it would seem by the 'roundheads' (Parliamentarians led by Cromwell). One of my questions was, what does the crowned IR stand for? In an article by master armourer Chris Dobson ("What do Armourers Marks Mean?", London Park Lane Arms Fair journal, Spring ,2005, p.43), it is noted that the marks 'C' surmounted by crown (for Charles II) and IR surmounted by crown (James II) were struck on armours found in the Tower of London. It seems that of these marks, they were often struck retrospectively , particularly in the case of the James II mark as in many cases these were struck on armours of makers long dead before either of these monarches acceded the throne. It must be noted, Charles II and James II were brothers in line for the throne. It is noted that the James II mark is very often badly struck, particularly on the brims of pikemens pots, since they had a fabric lining and punching the marks distorted the plate so badly it actually broke through in some. With this crowned IR, clearly this is a Royalist helmet, but it is interesting to note that James II of England and Ireland, James VII of Scotland only ruled 1685-1688 before being deposed. The split construction of the helmet indicates it is of British manufacture, rather than Continental, and the three bar peak (visor) was prevalent though single nasal also were in use. A curious bit of nonsense was proclaimed by General George Monck in 1644, who stated the three bars made the helmet's protection 'pistol proof'. !!! ?? In England these were well known as the 'three bar pot'. Questions remain, Could this 'pot' have been in use by Royalists during the turbulent times in the latter part of the War and struck presumptively for James II forces? Or, was it de facto stamped an used in the brief window of the actual reign of James II? Was it a cavalry helmet or pikemans? It seems the pikemen examples were stamped on the brim (due to the fabric lining?). With three bars it is undoubtedly British. My last question, which hours of searching could not resolve....what exactly does the term siege weight mean? |
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#5 |
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Hi Jim,
Thank you for your interest . The helmet is bullet proof and its heavy weight indicates that it was used as a siege helmet. Best Jean Luc |
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#6 |
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James II ARMOUR
This is the last Royal armour in the Royal Armouries collection. The armour cost £100, was made by Richard Holden, and was delivered on 14 December 1686. It is the only finely decorated royal armour ever known to have been made by a member of the London Armourers Company, and the last. It is a harquebusier’s armour, comprising a pot, breastplate, backplate and long elbow gauntlet; essentially the same as the ordinary munition armours made for the contemporary cavalry, but of rather finer quality. Like the ordinary munition armours, the cuirass bears the proof marks that attest that it is bullet proof. The whole armour is decorated with punched, engraved and originally gilt bands of trophies. The faceguard is fretted and decorated with the initials IR (Iacobus Rex) and with the Royal Arms and their supporters: the lion and the unicorn. The central band on the breastplate has IR separated by a crown and surmounted by a figure 2 at the top, with crossed sceptres below. Richard Holden, from Swadlincote in Derbyshire, was apprenticed to a London armourer in 1658 and made free in 1665. From 1673, he was supplying munition armour to the Board of Ordnance, and by 1681 he had become the armourer responsible for Royal commissions. He was involved in the negotiations that resulted in the incorporation of the Brasiers into the Armourers Company in 1708, though he was too old to sit on the Court of Assistants that was formed to control the new company. He died in 1709, the last of the London armourer makers. |
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#7 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Jean Luc, thank you so much for answering that question, and especially for the fantastic entry on the armour for James II!!!
This is superbly detailed information which perfectly augments the factors concerning this helmet, and is well placed here for future reference. Again, I must thank you for the constant entries of fascinating and important arms and armour you post here regularly. Your contributions here have given us all great opportunities to learn THROUGH these examples, and I know that I am most grateful for your sharing them. All very best regards Jim |
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