Meccan Mecca Jambiya source

Kubur · 22nd February 2017, 11:49 PM

Following Ibraheem example and his nice threads on the Omani khanjar.

I propose a thread on the so-called Meccan / Mecca Jambiya.

Here are the threads connected to this topic:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya

And some photos of Lawrence and his two famous Meccan jambiyas...

Please post only Meccan jambiya not all the silver jambiya made in Yemen or SA...
Thanks
Kubur

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th February 2017, 04:06 AM

See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...ale-90000.html which explains what happened to the famous dagger shown above after TE Lawrence went to a sitting ..and where a picture was taken in reverse showing the Jambia curving the wrong way...Oddly he seems to have left all of his items behind ~after which, years later they were sold as part of Lady Scotts estate;The lady who took the photographs.

Bob A · 25th February 2017, 05:47 AM

Christie's catalogue description of the Lawrence jambiya, and price realised:

Lot 47
SILVER-GILT MOUNTED ARAB JAMBIYA DAGGER. Ornately-tooled hilt and scabbard, curved blade. 30cm long.

Price realised GBP 122,500
USD 191,713

Estimate GBP 60,000 - GBP 90,000
(USD 92,700 - USD 139,050)
Change Currency
Add to Interests

SILVER-GILT MOUNTED ARAB JAMBIYA DAGGER. Ornately-tooled hilt and scabbard, curved blade. 30cm long.

Exhibition history: National Portrait Gallery, 1988-89, no. 128, see the accompanying catalogue: Jeremy Wilson, T.E. Lawrence (National Portrait Gallery Publications, London, 1988), p.88; Imperial War Museum, 2005-6.

A MAGNIFICENT SILVER-GILT DAGGER, PRESENTED TO LAWRENCE AFTER HIS TRIUMPH AT AQABA BY SHERIF NASIR. Returning to Cairo in July 1917 from the coup de main against Aqaba that would forever gild his reputation as the daring hero of Arabia, Lawrence found himself ‘daggerless and near naked’, as he would write to Lionel Curtis over a decade later. Sherif Abdullah, elder brother of Feisal and future ruler of the Transjordan, had presented Lawrence with his first dagger of silver gilt in Wadi Ais; from then on, a dagger belted onto the waistband of the flowing Arab robes he quickly adopted in the desert was to be a near-constant presence for the duration of the war. His letter to Curtis, of the 22 February 1929, detailed the three cherished blades he had owned; his first dagger he presented as a gift to the Howeitat chiefs in the Wadi Sirhan at the urging of Sherif Nasir – cousin of Feisal and Abdullah, who commanded the expedition alongside Lawrence and Abu ibu Tayi – an investment lavishly rewarded by the support of the Bedouin in the assault on Aqaba. Returning triumphant, anxious for a replacement, Lawrence travelled quickly to Jidda and then returned to Aqaba, where Nasir presented him with the present dagger, an honorific gift. Referred to in his letter as ‘Dagger III’, for he had taken advantage of his time in Jidda to commission another – small, gold – dagger to be made in Mecca (‘Dagger II’), he lamented its loss – as one of only ‘two daggers being still alive’ – after leaving it with Kathleen Scott, and continued: ‘I will try and see Lady Hilton Young [her married name] and ask tactfully if she thinks the silver one is hers or not’. Lawrence’s small gold dagger having been sold to Curtis for £125, and subsequently presented to All Souls’ College, Oxford, the present dagger – richly ornate and weighty both in physicality and historical significance – represents THE LAST OF LAWRENCE’S ARABIAN DAGGERS KNOWN TO SURVIVE IN PRIVATE HANDS.

Kubur · 25th February 2017, 09:16 AM

Thank you guys
Here are the two Meccan jambiya from the MET...

Kubur · 25th February 2017, 09:19 AM

the one of the Benaki Museum

Kubur · 25th February 2017, 09:21 AM

and finally two others early Meccan jambiya 1880-1920

Kubur · 26th February 2017, 08:50 AM

To complete this thread, here are some recent Meccan jambiya.
The one with the black belt is very good and i will place this kind of jambiya around 1930-50ties... the two others are very recent 1970ties until 1990...

silberschatzimsee · 26th February 2017, 01:03 PM

Apparently the lot passed twice, i think in a row, what i have observed. I was watching it closely to get a feeling and learning the prices.

Kubur · 26th February 2017, 01:15 PM

Well it's a very good example. It's not a Meccan jambiya as defined by collectors, but it's a jambiya from Mecca!
I guess the Meccan jambiya was defined by the ones hold by Lawrence...
Your example has some clear Omani inspirations...
Like this one, an Arab man in Jeddah, 1918...

Kubur · 5th March 2017, 11:49 PM

https://www.nam.ac.uk/lawrence-arabia-man-behind-robes

silberschatzimsee · 27th March 2017, 08:30 PM

The 'dagger from Mecca' is for sale again. This time for half of its previous estimates.
I still think it will remain unsold. Those jewels are not inserted symmetrically and that destroys a lot in my opinion,

mariusgmioc · 27th March 2017, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silberschatzimsee

The 'dagger from Mecca' is for sale again. This time for half of its previous estimates.

I still think it will remain unsold. Those jewels are not inserted symmetrically and that destroys a lot in my opinion,

I don't think we are supposed to discuss items that are object of an active sale.

Regards,

Marius

silberschatzimsee · 27th March 2017, 11:34 PM

ohh ok sorry, then everybody forget my oppinion and only take the notice that it appeared again on the market

A.alnakkas · 28th March 2017, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you guys
Here are the two Meccan jambiya from the MET...

Says Madina Monawara at the back. 2nd holiest site in Islam. So Madina Jambiya?:P

A.alnakkas · 28th March 2017, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silberschatzimsee

The 'dagger from Mecca' is for sale again. This time for half of its previous estimates.
I still think it will remain unsold. Those jewels are not inserted symmetrically and that destroys a lot in my opinion,

That is because of all the other daggers posted here, this one is for sure made in Mecca by Bader family who also made the door for the Kaaba and the government issue saif and dagger.

A.alnakkas · 28th March 2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Well it's a very good example. It's not a Meccan jambiya as defined by collectors, but it's a jambiya from Mecca!
I guess the Meccan jambiya was defined by the ones hold by Lawrence...
Your example has some clear Omani inspirations...
Like this one, an Arab man in Jeddah, 1918...

This particular Sharif resided in Jeddah. (message rendered pointless because I missed the last part)

silberschatzimsee · 28th March 2017, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

That is because of all the other daggers posted here, this one is for sure made in Mecca by Bader family who also made the door for the Kaaba and the government issue saif and dagger.

yeah i know that but the form is apparently not from mecca as i learned now

It didnt sell twice in the last year and last week i saw it again with half of its previous estimates so i posted it again for anybody interrested + plus my personal opinion but that apparently didnt comply to the rules.

A.alnakkas · 28th March 2017, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silberschatzimsee

yeah i know that but the form is apparently not from mecca as i learned now

It didnt sell twice in the last year and last week i saw it again with half of its previous estimates so i posted it again for anybody interrested + plus my personal opinion but that apparently didnt comply to the rules.

Well you'd be surprised how many forms were worn by people who lived in Mecca. This being one of them and the example being a modern one.

Kubur · 28th March 2017, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Says Madina Monawara at the back. 2nd holiest site in Islam. So Madina Jambiya?:P

Thank you my friend
I take it, Medina, Mecca not so far

Kubur · 28th March 2017, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Well you'd be surprised how many forms were worn by people who lived in Mecca. This being one of them and the example being a modern one.

Yes

And i would like to add that even the so-called Meccan jambiya has strong similarities with jambiya from Western Yemen. It was called Meccan most probably because of the one(s) held by Lawrence. In fact it's all about Yemen and Jews... This shape expended in all the Hijaz and beyond as Hijaz was an Ottoman possession.
Best,
Kubur

colin henshaw · 29th March 2017, 06:43 PM

This article appeared in the London "Evening Standard" newspaper of yesterday.

Michael Blalock · 8th April 2017, 04:28 PM

Here is a photo of a group of Royalist fighters for the Iman with one wearing a Mecca Jambiya. I have not see many photos of these worn by Yemeni men.

22nd February 2017, 11:49 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Meccan Mecca Jambiya source Following Ibraheem example and his nice threads on the Omani khanjar. I propose a thread on the so-called Meccan / Mecca Jambiya. Here are the threads connected to this topic: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...meccan+jambiya And some photos of Lawrence and his two famous Meccan jambiyas... Please post only Meccan jambiya not all the silver jambiya made in Yemen or SA... Thanks Kubur Attached Images

25th February 2017, 04:06 AM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...ale-90000.html which explains what happened to the famous dagger shown above after TE Lawrence went to a sitting ..and where a picture was taken in reverse showing the Jambia curving the wrong way...Oddly he seems to have left all of his items behind ~after which, years later they were sold as part of Lady Scotts estate;The lady who took the photographs. Attached Images

25th February 2017, 09:16 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you guys Here are the two Meccan jambiya from the MET... Attached Images

25th February 2017, 09:19 AM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	the one of the Benaki Museum Attached Images

25th February 2017, 09:21 AM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	and finally two others early Meccan jambiya 1880-1920 Attached Images

25th February 2017, 05:47 AM	#3
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	Christie's catalogue description of the Lawrence jambiya, and price realised: Lot 47 SILVER-GILT MOUNTED ARAB JAMBIYA DAGGER. Ornately-tooled hilt and scabbard, curved blade. 30cm long. Price realised GBP 122,500 USD 191,713 Estimate GBP 60,000 - GBP 90,000 (USD 92,700 - USD 139,050) Change Currency Add to Interests SILVER-GILT MOUNTED ARAB JAMBIYA DAGGER. Ornately-tooled hilt and scabbard, curved blade. 30cm long. Exhibition history: National Portrait Gallery, 1988-89, no. 128, see the accompanying catalogue: Jeremy Wilson, T.E. Lawrence (National Portrait Gallery Publications, London, 1988), p.88; Imperial War Museum, 2005-6. A MAGNIFICENT SILVER-GILT DAGGER, PRESENTED TO LAWRENCE AFTER HIS TRIUMPH AT AQABA BY SHERIF NASIR. Returning to Cairo in July 1917 from the coup de main against Aqaba that would forever gild his reputation as the daring hero of Arabia, Lawrence found himself ‘daggerless and near naked’, as he would write to Lionel Curtis over a decade later. Sherif Abdullah, elder brother of Feisal and future ruler of the Transjordan, had presented Lawrence with his first dagger of silver gilt in Wadi Ais; from then on, a dagger belted onto the waistband of the flowing Arab robes he quickly adopted in the desert was to be a near-constant presence for the duration of the war. His letter to Curtis, of the 22 February 1929, detailed the three cherished blades he had owned; his first dagger he presented as a gift to the Howeitat chiefs in the Wadi Sirhan at the urging of Sherif Nasir – cousin of Feisal and Abdullah, who commanded the expedition alongside Lawrence and Abu ibu Tayi – an investment lavishly rewarded by the support of the Bedouin in the assault on Aqaba. Returning triumphant, anxious for a replacement, Lawrence travelled quickly to Jidda and then returned to Aqaba, where Nasir presented him with the present dagger, an honorific gift. Referred to in his letter as ‘Dagger III’, for he had taken advantage of his time in Jidda to commission another – small, gold – dagger to be made in Mecca (‘Dagger II’), he lamented its loss – as one of only ‘two daggers being still alive’ – after leaving it with Kathleen Scott, and continued: ‘I will try and see Lady Hilton Young [her married name] and ask tactfully if she thinks the silver one is hers or not’. Lawrence’s small gold dagger having been sold to Curtis for £125, and subsequently presented to All Souls’ College, Oxford, the present dagger – richly ornate and weighty both in physicality and historical significance – represents THE LAST OF LAWRENCE’S ARABIAN DAGGERS KNOWN TO SURVIVE IN PRIVATE HANDS.

26th February 2017, 08:50 AM	#7
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	To complete this thread, here are some recent Meccan jambiya. The one with the black belt is very good and i will place this kind of jambiya around 1930-50ties... the two others are very recent 1970ties until 1990... Attached Images

26th February 2017, 01:03 PM	#8
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	Apparently the lot passed twice, i think in a row, what i have observed. I was watching it closely to get a feeling and learning the prices. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 28th March 2017 at 03:24 AM. Reason: auction link

26th February 2017, 01:15 PM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Well it's a very good example. It's not a Meccan jambiya as defined by collectors, but it's a jambiya from Mecca! I guess the Meccan jambiya was defined by the ones hold by Lawrence... Your example has some clear Omani inspirations... Like this one, an Arab man in Jeddah, 1918... Attached Images

5th March 2017, 11:49 PM	#10
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	https://www.nam.ac.uk/lawrence-arabia-man-behind-robes

27th March 2017, 08:30 PM	#11
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	The 'dagger from Mecca' is for sale again. This time for half of its previous estimates. I still think it will remain unsold. Those jewels are not inserted symmetrically and that destroys a lot in my opinion, Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 28th March 2017 at 03:25 AM. Reason: auction link

27th March 2017, 11:34 PM	#13
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	ohh ok sorry, then everybody forget my oppinion and only take the notice that it appeared again on the market

29th March 2017, 06:43 PM	#21
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	This article appeared in the London "Evening Standard" newspaper of yesterday. Attached Images

8th April 2017, 04:28 PM	#22
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Here is a photo of a group of Royalist fighters for the Iman with one wearing a Mecca Jambiya. I have not see many photos of these worn by Yemeni men. Attached Images