British Naval Officer's Blue & Gilt Dirk

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Here’s an odd one. This Naval dirk has the most usual etched design I have come across, appears almost free mason. It’s larger than most of my dirks and I haven’t come across another example quite like it. I would be interested in anyone’s thoughts as to what this peculiar collection of symbols might mean.

Date: c1800
Overall Length: In Scabbard 20 ¾” 52.5 cm, Dirk Only 20” 50.8 cm
Blade length: 15 7/8” 40.3 cm
Blade widest point: 1” 2.5 cm
Hilt widest point: 2 ½” 6.4 cm
Inside grip length: 3 ½” 8.9 cm
Marks, etc: St Side Floral design, seeing eye, Sun, Moon & Stars, Scull & Cross bones over a coffin, Hand, Foot. Other side Floral design, Star, Maltese Cross, Sheep with Flag, Rooster, Sword.

Description
BRITISH OFFICER'S BLUE & GILT DOUBLE EDGE DIRK:16" blade retaining 70% blue & gilt finish; gilt brass hilt Lion's head pommel & with chips to carved ivory grip; fitted with original gilt brass chain; complete with gilt brass mounted leather scabbard. c.1800.

Any thoughts

Cheers Cathey & Rex

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Cathey,
The cockerel would suggest this is French rather than British.
Regards,
Norman.

[Richard G]

The 'sheep with flag' is the paschal lamb, or Lamb of God, a religous (Christian) symbol.
Sorry, if you already knew this.
Regards
richard

[David]

Originally Posted by Richard G

The 'sheep with flag' is the paschal lamb, or Lamb of God, a religous (Christian) symbol.
Sorry, if you already knew this.

This is true Richard, though given the other symbols (the skull & crossbones, sun, crescent moon & stars, radiant eye, hand & foot, etc.) i'd say there is a strong possibility that the lamb has a masonic implication.

[fernando]

I wouldn't think so, David but ...

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

I wouldn't think so, David but ...

What would you think then Fernando?

[David]

Here is an article on the Paschal Lamb as it relates to freemasonry.
http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads...al-lamb.22916/

[David]

If you scroll down a bit in this article you can see how the seven-pointed star, also shown on this blade, is used in freemasonry.
http://dcsymbols.com/officers/officers.htm
In freemasonry the rooster symbolizes the mercurial principle as explained in this article on the Chamber of Reflections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_of_Reflection
I suspect that what looks like an iron cross on this blade is really meant to be the Cross Pattée, symbol of the Order of the Temple.
So i can connect every single symbol on this blade to a significant symbol in freemasonry, but maybe that is just a coincidence...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

What would you think then Fernando?

I would not stress the tone of my approach in 'would' but in but ...
This meaning that, i was convinced that the Agnus Dei an the prayer derived from John 1:29 writing, both which i am familiar with since childhood, were something that did not (also) figure in other creed's symbology ... but i stood for the benefit of doubt.
Now i am enlightened; no further issue to be inferred .

[Richard G]

There is also the 'Tyler's sword'.
The "Tyler', apparently, is a masonic official who originally stood guard outside a meeting of mason's (particularly if in a semi-public space, like a room at an Inn etc.) in order keep away non-masons and eavesdroppers, armed with a sword.
Regards
Richard

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by David

If you scroll down a bit in this article you can see how the seven-pointed star, also shown on this blade, is used in freemasonry.
http://dcsymbols.com/officers/officers.htm
In freemasonry the rooster symbolizes the mercurial principle as explained in this article on the Chamber of Reflections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_of_Reflection
I suspect that what looks like an iron cross on this blade is really meant to be the Cross Pattée, symbol of the Order of the Temple.
So i can connect every single symbol on this blade to a significant symbol in freemasonry, but maybe that is just a coincidence...

But David, is not the star on the sword 8 pointed rather than 7 ?

[Cathey]

Hi guys

thankyou for confirming my first thought that this dirk had a masonic connection. Speaking to a friend who happens to be a retired naval officer he advised that such Dirks are not unusual as the Free Masons had strong ties with military and in particular the Navy. I found one other example of this dirk, although in poor condition come up for sale through the dealer Sailor in Saddle.

From what I have been able to find out the royal Naval lodge was founded in 1739, the symbology of the Nile medal was redolent of Masonry and Nelson was admitted to the Ancient Order of Gregorians in 1801. It would be interesting to find out more about the link with Freemasons and Nelsons Navy.

Cheers

Cathey and Rex

[fernando]

You are most probably aware of the following:

http://www.lodgestpatrick.co.nz/lordnelson.php

[Jim McDougall]

As always, Cathey posts fascinating examples that promote great discussions, and this one has been outstanding, not just for the intriguing subject matter, but the teamwork in sharing and observing details.

The Masonic theme in weaponry has been a constant fascination for many years, but often somewhat overlooked. In this case, the Masonic symbols placed in the motif of this dirk are not only obvious but compelling .

It often amazes me at just how thoroughly Freemasonry has permeated historic figures and events as well as the cultures of their times. Presently we are travelling through the Southwest, and even in these 'Wild West' cow towns the Masonic mystique prevailed. Coincidentally I was just researching some Masonic swords in a small museum in one in Arizona, where the primary focus was of course gunfighters and such history related to the OK Corral.
Here, along with the fabled six shooters, were a number of clearly Masonic swords, belonging to prominent figures in the town (not the gunfighters of course .

Returning to Nelson and the Dirk in discussion. It is important to remember that Freemasonry was of course prevalent in military context as typically officers were of the gentry or varying levels of peerage. This being the case, naturally many, if not most, were highly involved in Masonic activity.
I suspect that in many cases, Masonic allegiance was predominant as there were certainly indistinct ties between members of lodges in France, and Great Britain.

Regarding Masonic related decoration and styling, it seems that in the neo classic styles in many edged weapons of the latter 18th century may have had even more subtle nuance, for example the 'five ball hilt' type of officers spadroon of 1780 +. These apparently evolved in England, but later, in a remarkable instance, were adopted in France as similar hilts termed as l'Anglaise.
In research many years ago, I thought that perhaps the 'balls' or 'beads' incorporated in the hilt elements may have had numeric significance, particularly in a Masonic sense with the number 5 . In France others had sometimes 7, but again, symbolism?
These ideas were inconclusive, and even Robson discounted the idea, thinking the decoration was simply aesthetic.
Still, as more Masonic themes become apparent, I still wonder.

[Richard G]

Probably need a Mason to answer this one, but bearing in mind their reputation for secrecy, would this be a Masonic dagger, possibly belonging to a Lodge, for use in Masonic rituals, or would it be the dagger of a Naval Officer who was a Mason, and didn't care who knew it?
Regards
Richard

[Will M]

Richard I believe this dagger/dirk would have been used by a navy officer. The blade etching would not normally be seen except if drawn for use. Masons took pride in who they were and didn't hide the fact of who they were.
Many politicians, lawyers, etc. were masons, even US presidents.
I have many framed mason documents of my grandfathers including when he was Grand Superintendent of Toronto East Disttrict #8.

[Helleri]

What animal is the metal part of the grip mean to resemble? Also the side ring of the guard (maybe both of them?) has some sort of animal or symbol as well but I can't figure on what it is.

[Richard G]

Will, looking at this again, I'm still not sure. I can't see any naval connection other than the style of the dirk itself. I wonder if it is a masonic dirk, plain and simple'
Helleri, the pommel is supposed to be a lions head. This sort of 'upper half only head' is normal for this type of dirk.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Guys, thank you for bringing this thread back!
Actually the notion that this is a naval officers dirk was probably simply because of the well established use of them in that context.
The animal head is indeed intended to be a lion head, in this configuration it corresponds to British infantry officers sabre hilts (M1803) and other military and naval hilts of the Georgian period.

Looking further into this, it would seem that this is most likely a dirk made specifically for a Freemason, and probably of the Order of Knights Templar.
While checking references on Freemasonry, in this case which are on the American aspects, in many if not most cases, the allegory and symbolism used in Freemasonry transcends nationality and other denominators.

From "Material Culture of the American Freemasons" (John D. Hamilton, 1994, p159): 'Knights Templar Dirk"
"...both real and false dirks were worn attached to a regalia baldric or sash as an insignia of the Templar Order. Real dirks were prescribed for regalia worn by Knights Templar only in certain commanderies".

With the numerous symbols on this blade, it would seem perhaps that either it was intended for an individual with achievements in a number of degrees or associations in various rites or steps. In most cases, there is a wide spectrum of perceptions held toward these symbols. For non Freemasons such as myself, it is often dangerous to try to offer meanings and definitive assessments of these. The very secretive nature of Masonry has lead to prolific writings and material which can mostly be regarded as speculative.

The grips on the hilt in ivory for example, have the familiar Palladian arch, which while an architectural feature of the Renaissance, and from a famed architect and Mason, also appeared in Georgian and Federal designs in other than Masonic cases.
The rest of the symbols on the blade are all profoundly Masonic, the cockerel represents the 'Cock of Resurrection' often placed with the 'Paschal Lamb' (as discussed earlier). While this was suggested to indicate French origin, I would note that in other cases the Paschal lamb was joined with French inspired regalia c.1797, on Scottish Rite aprons (op. cit. p112 , 4.22).

There were unbound connections between British, French and for that matter, American Masonic lodges in these times.

It is interesting to see the 'dirk' itself among the pastiche of symbols on the blade of this piece. It seems that symbol often occurs as well in certain degrees of the Scottish Rite. Other symbols such as skull and crossbones have more broad meaning in Masonic symbolism, as do the 'All Seeing Eye' which recalls the origins back to Solomon and Hiram Abiff etc.

In all, a most intriguing item of distinctively British Masonic regalia and as noted, Georgian period in early years of 19th c.

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

As I mentioned previously the royal Naval lodge was founded in 1739. Having discussed this dirk at length with a Naval collector he reassured me that it is Naval but would have belonged to an officer who was also a member of the Naval lodge in the Georgian period.

The Guard has the typical English lion hilt common to many Naval dirks and an English rose on the cross guard.

Regards

Cathey and Rex

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Guys

As I mentioned previously the royal Naval lodge was founded in 1739. Having discussed this dirk at length with a Naval collector he reassured me that it is Naval but would have belonged to an officer who was also a member of the Naval lodge in the Georgian period.

The Guard has the typical English lion hilt common to many Naval dirks and an English rose on the cross guard.

Regards

Cathey and Rex

That makes perfect sense, as it is indeed British. It is interesting to see the groupings of Masonic allegorical symbols, and curious why the typical addition of the fouled anchor would not occur among them. It seems in most cases of naval edged weapons this invariably is present either in hilt or on blade.
My resources as noted were specifically to Masonic symbolism in American context, but I am curious about regalia of the Naval Lodge mentioned in England. I was not aware of a specific lodge for naval officers.

The best thing about weapons is how much we learn from them !

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Guys

As I mentioned previously the royal Naval lodge was founded in 1739. Having discussed this dirk at length with a Naval collector he reassured me that it is Naval but would have belonged to an officer who was also a member of the Naval lodge in the Georgian period.

The Guard has the typical English lion hilt common to many Naval dirks and an English rose on the cross guard.

Regards

Cathey and Rex

It seems I am striking out in finding much on British naval lodges. I very much agree with the Georgian period of this dirk, and the style, scabbard etc. corresponds to Naval edged weapons of the time. The rather 'half' lion seems like some presentation swords of the period. Usually the lion heads were more full.
A 'Freemasons Chronicle (Vol. 11, 1879) lists two 'Sea' lodges in the 18th century. One in 1760 (#254 HMS Vanguard)which went to #108 London Lodge.
Another in 1762 which went to Somerset House? (#254, HMS Prince at Plymouth).
According to this reference, these were still 'on the rolls' of Grand Lodge of England in 1879.

"A Concise Cyclopedia of Freemasonry" Edward Lovell Hawkins (1922) lists these as well, but mentions three lodges, unclear on the other.
It seems noted that of the military, the navy was not very active in formation of lodges c. 1755. The mention of three lodges known to be warranted by Grand Lodge Of England remain mysteriously unclear.
Another note mentions that no other sea lodges were ever constituted though one request to Grand Lodge of Scotland in 1810 was made but not completed.

There are suggestions that Lord Nelson was a Mason, but no exacting proof has been established despite some notable references to certain lodges having commemorations for him .
While I found mention of an 'amphibious lodge' (#407) for Royal Navy officers and Marines (Stonehouse, Plymouth, 1787)......I could not find significant notice to naval lodges further.

I did find a British officers dirk having a Masonic emblem on the scabbard throat c. 1880 and to a Priory Lodge 341, New Ross.

It would be great if your source could note more on Freemasonry in naval context as these findings are terribly incomplete and I'd sure like to know for my own notes.

[Jim McDougall]

Addendum:

On the History of 'The Navy Lodge' #2612 (consecrated 1896)

Royal Naval Lodge #59 was founded in London 1739, but in following years lost its connection to navy.

Royal Navy Lodge #429 founded 1838 at Ramsgate.

While it seems there might not have been a specific 'naval' lodge maybe officers (obviously just as with most military officers) must have been Masons in the time of this dirk. Maybe that's why no naval motif?
That still does not eliminate its being naval, just hoping to narrow to likely period by known Masonic affiliations at the time.

[Richard G]

Jim,
Not only no naval insignia but also, as far as I can see, no monarch's cypher. Only the style of this dirk connects it to the Navy. As you point out, if the Cross Pattee has any significance maybe it connects it to a Masonic Knights Templar organisation, or even the legal profession via the Inns of Court.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Jim,
Not only no naval insignia but also, as far as I can see, no monarch's cypher. Only the style of this dirk connects it to the Navy. As you point out, if the Cross Pattee has any significance maybe it connects it to a Masonic Knights Templar organisation, or even the legal profession via the Inns of Court.
Regards
Richard

Well pointed out Richard. Military swords and edged weapons for officers indeed had the Royal cypher in the blued field of the blade. Not only is the naval fouled anchor notably absent, but the blade is covered in a mélange of Masonic allegoric symbols. Of these, the cross pattee is of course to the Knights Templar order in the heirachy of Masonic rites.

It seems by its style that this dirk would certainly be Georgian, and inherently aligned with a naval weapon, but as noted earlier, the dirk was also a weapon used in Masonic regalia. As such it would be presumed that the according symbolism would be impressively displayed as with this example.

I wonder if naval officers of this period were perhaps simply absorbed within the membership of the broader scope of Masonic lodges, rather than there being a specific 'naval lodge'. It does by no means dismiss the notable rarity and keen naval gestalt of this example, and that it is indeed of the Georgian period.

As I could find no examples of naval dirk with Masonic motif until the one I noted from 1880, and as the only specific naval lodge recognized was not founded until 1838, the question remains if there was actually a recognized naval lodge in the end of the 18th into early 19th c .
The 1739 lodge apparantly became disassociated with the Grand Lodge as noted, and its members presumably filtered into other lodges .

This dirk is an outstanding example, and its Masonic character presents opportunities to look deeper into its history.

[Jim McDougall]

OK, think I found something else important,
From "Naval Swords" , P.G. W. Annis, Stackpole Books, 1970, example 47

"...there is nothing about this weapon to indicate a connection to the sea, but the same is true of most 18th century dirks. As few army officers, British or American, seem to have worn dirks to any great extent as large numbers of naval officers did there is a strong presumption that these belonged to the latter".

I did find that while most of the examples shown in this reference did not have naval symbols nor royal cypher, but others did. The shallow lion head mask did appear on some as well, usually those with the cypher on blade, but anchor on scabbard.

One example had a situation with the letter G stamped on the blade near the forte, though the entire dirk was to the outfitter Salter as shown on scabbard locket. It is noted that the G represented the Gill family of blade makers in business 1774-1826.
While it might be tempting to align the G with that letter commonly used in Masonic symbolism, usually within the compass, it is noted here only as an interesting coincidence.

It would seem then, that naval insignia nor royal cypher were necessarily prerequisite on naval dirks, so the fact that these were inherently naval officers weapons stands as appropriate designator here. The Masonic symbolism in this early period on such a clearly naval weapon in such profusion only adds intrigue to its clear rarity.
While it would

[Richard G]

Jim, I agree that this dirk is late Georgian or William IV. There are also other types, the most common being with a turned grip and somewhat resembling a stilletto. I agree that as a type these dirks are associated with Naval officers; but in every case?
What I am speculating is that these dirks are first and foremost Georgian, and although we can say probably Naval, we should not make that assumption if the clues lead elsewhere.
To put it rather simply, would a Naval officer, a Mason, or even a man off the street, who approached a sword cutler for a dirk be shown essentially the same dirk and be told we can 'customise' this to your requirements. Probably the majority of customers would be Naval officers and this would mean the majority of these dirks are Naval, but not necessarily every one. Cathey's could be one of those exceptions
Annis explains his 'strong presumption', but it is only that, due to the absence of any other likely attribution. Unfortunately a quick Google of Georgian dirks will reveal virtually every one is described as 'Naval'. Many obviously are, but some are more akin to hunting knives. Unless dirks were the sole preserve of Naval officers only this seems a too easy and rather sloppy attribution.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Jim, I agree that this dirk is late Georgian or William IV. There are also other types, the most common being with a turned grip and somewhat resembling a stilletto. I agree that as a type these dirks are associated with Naval officers; but in every case?
What I am speculating is that these dirks are first and foremost Georgian, and although we can say probably Naval, we should not make that assumption if the clues lead elsewhere.
To put it rather simply, would a Naval officer, a Mason, or even a man off the street, who approached a sword cutler for a dirk be shown essentially the same dirk and be told we can 'customise' this to your requirements. Probably the majority of customers would be Naval officers and this would mean the majority of these dirks are Naval, but not necessarily every one. Cathey's could be one of those exceptions
Annis explains his 'strong presumption', but it is only that, due to the absence of any other likely attribution. Unfortunately a quick Google of Georgian dirks will reveal virtually every one is described as 'Naval'. Many obviously are, but some are more akin to hunting knives. Unless dirks were the sole preserve of Naval officers only this seems a too easy and rather sloppy attribution.
Regards
Richard

Richard,
Actually I think we agree as reading through your observations it sounds as if we are saying somewhat the same thing. I must admit that even authors and authorities occasionally drop their guard, and fail to over qualify every word and nuance in their text, subject to the criticism and rebuttal of later researchers. It is probably my own perspective, but I typically avoid regarding such matters as being sloppy, and rather subject to revision.

The implication that dirks were primarily a naval weapon I think pertains to the British context, as obviously the dirk was well known outside naval use as well, the Scottish dirk not withstanding.

I indicated that in Masonry, the use of the dirk was in fact worn as a status and ranking symbol, thus certainly something available from outfitters for such purpose. So clearly, not only naval officers would be ordering such weapons. In the case of dirks used by naval officers, as shown in Annis, many of these were clearly personal items, reflecting few or virtually no military or naval features. This has long seemed to be inherently the case with naval officers with their choice of swords as well.

Therefore, as I see in rereading my text which was mostly the progression of research I was doing, I would revise my last comments in accord with what you note.
A British Georgian period (possibly later) dirk with Masonic motif and possible naval association.
Thank you for the well placed observations.

Best regards
Jim