An Odd Ensemble (for me)

David · 19th March 2016, 05:42 AM

Since we have been looking at some more unusual keris and keris-like objects (KLO) recently i would be interested in hearing what our keris enthusiasts think about this one. Supposedly it belongs to the Sultan of Terengganu, but is currently on museum display as seen in this photo. I don't know much more about it nor do i have any more photos. Frankly i have never seen anything like it, from the unusually adorned blade to the hidden tombak in the sheath tip.

Jean · 19th March 2016, 11:15 AM

The scabbard is in Palembang style, so it may be a 2 in 1 gift (keris & tombak) from the Sultan of Palembang to the Sultan of Terengganu?
Regards

Gavin Nugent · 19th March 2016, 01:02 PM

Certainly Sumatra, the hulu is that of Knives from the region too, see below.

The entire object is most interesting and unusual, despite the unorthodox form, I like it. Such attention to detail through out, down to a little gold sprung clip to keep the base attached.

Gavin

David · 19th March 2016, 10:34 PM

Yes Jean, certainly the sheath is a Palembang design. Your suggestion is certainly possible.
Thanks for this comparison hilt. I was having trouble making it out from that one photo. Looks like it might be a makara then.

Gustav · 19th March 2016, 11:49 PM

Jean, I really enjoyed your comment, thanks!

mariusgmioc · 20th March 2016, 08:43 AM

Very interesting indeed! Thank you for sharing the photo!

Now seeing this one, I am starting to think that my carved one might not be as "exotic" after all.

I might have liked this one if it weren't the "jewels" on the blade.

But keep it in mind that almost in every museum you will go, you will find a few examples of very exotic hybrid weapons that even the most experienced curators will find difficult to classify.

Jean · 20th March 2016, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for this comparison hilt. I was having trouble making it out from that one photo. Looks like it might be a makara then.

Hi Gavin and David,
The pics of the hilts are not very clear but I am not sure that they depict the same figure, the one from Gavin with the protruding nose depicts a popular hero from Bali/ Lombok area? but I forgot his name.
Best regards
Jean

Bjorn · 23rd March 2016, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi Gavin and David,
The pics of the hilts are not very clear but I am not sure that they depict the same figure, the one from Gavin with the protruding nose depicts a popular hero from Bali/ Lombok area? but I forgot his name.
Best regards
Jean

I believe this hilt depicts the character Umarmaya. As far as I know, this is a panakawan character in Lombok. On this site (German), he's listed as a character in the repertoire of Wayang Sasak (ethnic group on Lombok).

David · 23rd March 2016, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuuzan

I believe this hilt depicts the character Umarmaya. As far as I know, this is a panakawan character in Lombok. On this site (German), he's listed as a character in the repertoire of Wayang Sasak (ethnic group on Lombok).

Thanks for your imput. Given the placement of this item it would seem strange to have a culturally mixed ensemble like that, but who knows. I would love to see some better images of this hilt.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd March 2016, 11:49 PM

I believe that when we get a profile photo of this hilt it will be found that it is derived from a wayang character, and that it has a big nose. In fact, we can just about see this now, but nothing more.

All kasar (rough, crude) characters in the wayang have big noses.

If we are to try to specifically identify the character shown in this hilt we need at the very least a clear profile photo.

Jean · 24th March 2016, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuuzan

I believe this hilt depicts the character Umarmaya. As far as I know, this is a panakawan character in Lombok. On this site (German), he's listed as a character in the repertoire of Wayang Sasak (ethnic group on Lombok).

Thank you Yuuzan.
Yes, although the pic is not very clear I believe that the hilt shown by Gavin depicts Umarmaya or Umar Maye as he has very distinctive features. He seems to be a very popular character in Lombok but very little is published about him. We already discussed it in September 2008 without much success.
Gavin, are you sure that your dagger is from Sumatra?
Regards

GIO · 25th March 2016, 11:53 AM

Gavin, are you sure that your dagger is from Sumatra?
Regards

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree with Jean.
In fact the photo doesn't show much. From what we can see, the scabbard seems Madurese and the hilt could be Cirebon. A photo of the blade would help.

David · 25th March 2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Gavin, are you sure that your dagger is from Sumatra?
Regards

Yes, I agree with Jean.
In fact the photo doesn't show much. From what we can see, the scabbard seems Madurese and the hilt could be Cirebon. A photo of the blade would help.[/QUOTE]
Just to be clear Gio, you are talking about Gavin's ensemble, not the original one, correct?

19th March 2016, 05:42 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	An Odd Ensemble (for me) Since we have been looking at some more unusual keris and keris-like objects (KLO) recently i would be interested in hearing what our keris enthusiasts think about this one. Supposedly it belongs to the Sultan of Terengganu, but is currently on museum display as seen in this photo. I don't know much more about it nor do i have any more photos. Frankly i have never seen anything like it, from the unusually adorned blade to the hidden tombak in the sheath tip. Attached Images

19th March 2016, 01:02 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Certainly Sumatra, the hulu is that of Knives from the region too, see below. The entire object is most interesting and unusual, despite the unorthodox form, I like it. Such attention to detail through out, down to a little gold sprung clip to keep the base attached. Gavin Attached Images

19th March 2016, 11:15 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The scabbard is in Palembang style, so it may be a 2 in 1 gift (keris & tombak) from the Sultan of Palembang to the Sultan of Terengganu? Regards

19th March 2016, 10:34 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Yes Jean, certainly the sheath is a Palembang design. Your suggestion is certainly possible. Thanks for this comparison hilt. I was having trouble making it out from that one photo. Looks like it might be a makara then.

19th March 2016, 11:49 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	Jean, I really enjoyed your comment, thanks!

20th March 2016, 08:43 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Very interesting indeed! Thank you for sharing the photo! Now seeing this one, I am starting to think that my carved one might not be as "exotic" after all. I might have liked this one if it weren't the "jewels" on the blade. But keep it in mind that almost in every museum you will go, you will find a few examples of very exotic hybrid weapons that even the most experienced curators will find difficult to classify.

23rd March 2016, 11:49 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	I believe that when we get a profile photo of this hilt it will be found that it is derived from a wayang character, and that it has a big nose. In fact, we can just about see this now, but nothing more. All kasar (rough, crude) characters in the wayang have big noses. If we are to try to specifically identify the character shown in this hilt we need at the very least a clear profile photo.

25th March 2016, 11:53 AM	#12
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Gavin, are you sure that your dagger is from Sumatra? Regards [/QUOTE] Yes, I agree with Jean. In fact the photo doesn't show much. From what we can see, the scabbard seems Madurese and the hilt could be Cirebon. A photo of the blade would help.