MAHOUTS DAGGERS FOR COMMENT

BANDOOK · 21st July 2015, 10:17 AM

A UNMATCHED PAIR OF MAHOUTS DAGGER FOR COMMENTS ,BOUGHT ABOUT 20 YEARS BACK IN JODHPUR,RAJASTHAN,INDIA
MEASURE APPROX 64 CMS AND QUIET HEAVY,CENTRE PART IS BULBOUS
REGARDS RAJESH

VANDOO · 22nd July 2015, 03:00 PM

VERY INTERESTING AND ORNATE ITEMS MORE SWORD LENGTH THAN DAGGER OR KNIFE. I WONDER IF THEY WERE WORN BY THE MAHOUTS OR PART OF THE ORNATE HARNESS OF THE ELEPHANT. THESE ARE SOMETHING I HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE OR EVEN HEARD OF BUT VERY COOL.

Jim McDougall · 22nd July 2015, 10:14 PM

These are really fascinating! and I must say I had not heard of these 'daggers' before, though obviously we are usually familiar with the ankus, the goads used by these mahouts which are well covered in Elgood's "Hindu Arms & Ritual".

One very esoteric facet of the mahouts and elephants would be the rather bizarre 'tusk swords' mounted on many of these elephants with their combat trappings. These are much debated and few examples or records exist, but seem to go well with these in the little discussed topic of elephants use in Indian warfare.

BANDOOK · 23rd July 2015, 11:26 AM

THANKS VANDOO AND JIM FOR YOUR INPUTS,THESE WERE IN STORAGE FOR LONG TIME,SO I FINALLY FOUND THEM AND POSTED IT HERE AS I WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT THEM,CHEERS

kronckew · 23rd July 2015, 07:18 PM

carthaginian elephant drivers apparently carried a spike that they could drive thru the elephant's craniovertebral junction to kill it if it went out of control after being wounded and fleeing the battle, started attacking their own troops to get away. apparently elephants were rather hard to kill with arrows and javalins, one was recorded as having been struck with 60 of them before it succumbed. (not sure if that was with or without armour, which they generally wore.)

indian war elephants i would hazard, might require the mahout to a similar 'mercy' spike or dagger. a strong blade with a two handed grip and weighted to add momentum to a downward strike might look just like those. the hooked spike ankus they also carried was more for control via the hooking ears and the occasional poke with the spike & not long or sharp enough to wound or kill the ellyfant.

p.s. - the last recorded use of elephants in a battle was apparently in 1987.

spiral · 24th July 2015, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

p.s. - the last recorded use of elephants in a battle was apparently in 1987.

That's interesting Kronckew, I guess that was Africa somewhere?

spiral

Battara · 24th July 2015, 04:35 AM

Thanks for posting these - never seen the like before.

kronckew · 24th July 2015, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

That's interesting Kronckew, I guess that was Africa somewhere?

spiral

oddly enough it was iraq during one of their wars. the elephants were used to transport artillery. apparently they can go places where motorized vehicles and horses can't.

it reminded me of one of my favourite old movies, 'gunga din'. where he warns the approaching brits by blowing 'stand to' on his trumpet, for which he gets killed, but the column deploys and also sets up a pair of gatling guns carried by elephants. (or was it field howitzers?). great charge by the lancers too. thta was set in the 19c.

edited:

they were gatlings

21st July 2015, 10:17 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	MAHOUTS DAGGERS FOR COMMENT A UNMATCHED PAIR OF MAHOUTS DAGGER FOR COMMENTS ,BOUGHT ABOUT 20 YEARS BACK IN JODHPUR,RAJASTHAN,INDIA MEASURE APPROX 64 CMS AND QUIET HEAVY,CENTRE PART IS BULBOUS REGARDS RAJESH Attached Images

23rd July 2015, 07:18 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,179	carthaginian elephant drivers apparently carried a spike that they could drive thru the elephant's craniovertebral junction to kill it if it went out of control after being wounded and fleeing the battle, started attacking their own troops to get away. apparently elephants were rather hard to kill with arrows and javalins, one was recorded as having been struck with 60 of them before it succumbed. (not sure if that was with or without armour, which they generally wore.) indian war elephants i would hazard, might require the mahout to a similar 'mercy' spike or dagger. a strong blade with a two handed grip and weighted to add momentum to a downward strike might look just like those. the hooked spike ankus they also carried was more for control via the hooking ears and the occasional poke with the spike & not long or sharp enough to wound or kill the ellyfant. p.s. - the last recorded use of elephants in a battle was apparently in 1987. Last edited by kronckew; 23rd July 2015 at 07:46 PM.

22nd July 2015, 03:00 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY INTERESTING AND ORNATE ITEMS MORE SWORD LENGTH THAN DAGGER OR KNIFE. I WONDER IF THEY WERE WORN BY THE MAHOUTS OR PART OF THE ORNATE HARNESS OF THE ELEPHANT. THESE ARE SOMETHING I HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE OR EVEN HEARD OF BUT VERY COOL.

22nd July 2015, 10:14 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	These are really fascinating! and I must say I had not heard of these 'daggers' before, though obviously we are usually familiar with the ankus, the goads used by these mahouts which are well covered in Elgood's "Hindu Arms & Ritual". One very esoteric facet of the mahouts and elephants would be the rather bizarre 'tusk swords' mounted on many of these elephants with their combat trappings. These are much debated and few examples or records exist, but seem to go well with these in the little discussed topic of elephants use in Indian warfare.

23rd July 2015, 11:26 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	THANKS VANDOO AND JIM FOR YOUR INPUTS,THESE WERE IN STORAGE FOR LONG TIME,SO I FINALLY FOUND THEM AND POSTED IT HERE AS I WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT THEM,CHEERS

24th July 2015, 04:35 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Thanks for posting these - never seen the like before.