An Omani abu Fitila Matchlock gun for comment

Cerjak · 25th April 2015, 05:58 PM

According to Elgood ( N°50 page 86) this Abu Fitila is with a 17 th century barrel of architectural form.
any comment on it will be welcome

Cerjak · 25th April 2015, 06:00 PM

one more

kahnjar1 · 25th April 2015, 10:38 PM

Yes a nice Omani Abu Fitila. What is overall length of the piece? To me it looks quite short.
I have one of these with overall length of 64" (1625mm) and barrel length of 46" (1170mm)
Stu

Cerjak · 26th April 2015, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Yes a nice Omani Abu Fitila. What is overall length of the piece? To me it looks quite short.
I have one of these with overall length of 64" (1625mm) and barrel length of 46" (1170mm)
Stu

Hi Stuart ,
Well seen this one have a barrel around 90 cm and overall 130 cm.
I 'm still astonished at this barrel is more than 300 years old! Do you have a similar design in your barrel I would like to see.

Best

Cerjak

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th April 2015, 01:15 PM

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th April 2015, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi Stuart ,
Well seen this one have a barrel around 90 cm and overall 130 cm.
I 'm still astonished at this barrel is more than 300 years old! Do you have a similar design in your barrel I would like to see.

Best

Cerjak

Salaams Cerjac, I have several barrels and complete Abu Futilla... Father of the Match or the one with the match ... Looking through Icoman it appears that a lot of guns were German...but as you say this Barrel seems to be Persian or Indian? I mention Icoman many times in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Forts and I have a number of barrels that have blown apart at the first join. In my store there's a barrel just like yours. In the Islamic Arms by the late Anthony North he goes immediately into a description of these firearms and how a tried and trusted system in this theatre lasted and lasted ...That is very much the case with Omani weapons where for example Abu Futilla were still being used well into the late 20th Century! not to mention the length of time of the Omani Battle Sword...

http://www.klm-mra.be/icomam/downloads/issue07.pdf is a useful reference and sets the background for the general theme...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

BANDOOK · 26th April 2015, 02:04 PM

Hello Cerjak,here is my Omani matchlock,missing few parts but that's the way I got it
AN OMANI MATCHLOCK MUSKET
Description: The rosewood stock of characteristic form with expanded butt. With profiled and pierced trigger, the brass barrel bands retaining the forearm sheathing. Barrel with finely profiled pan and rear sight, breach and muzzle deeply inlaid with brass. Retains its brass match receptacle and extinguisher, as well as a length of original match cord. Early 19th century. Ramrod intact. Overall length 140.7 cm.Condition II
Regards Rajesh

BANDOOK · 26th April 2015, 02:08 PM

Greetings Ibrahiim
please could you let me know missing things needed to complete my Omani musket as you are an expert with these type of muskets,appreciate your inputs
kind regards
Rajesh

Kubur · 26th April 2015, 03:01 PM

Hi all!

The barrels are Persian barrels, according to Elgood.
Better than his book on firearms, better to refer on his "Arms and armour of Arabia"...more informative if I may.
For the Persian barrels, I think we should wait the book of Manoucher Khorasani.
http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/bio...ire-and-steel/
I'm sure that it will be a very interesting book!
Despite some critics about his work "Arms and armour from Iran" that I've seen on the forum. Manoucher Khorasani's work is really impressive and very informative. I guess it's always more easy to criticise than to do something.

Regards,
Kubur

Cerjak · 26th April 2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Cerjac, I have several barrels and complete Abu Futilla... Father of the Match or the one with the match ... Looking through Icoman it appears that a lot of guns were German...but as you say this Barrel seems to be Persian or Indian? I mention Icoman many times in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Forts and I have a number of barrels that have blown apart at the first join. In my store there's a barrel just like yours. In the Islamic Arms by the late Anthony North he goes immediately into a description of these firearms and how a tried and trusted system in this theatre lasted and lasted ...That is very much the case with Omani weapons where for example Abu Futilla were still being used well into the late 20th Century! not to mention the length of time of the Omani Battle Sword...

http://www.klm-mra.be/icomam/downloads/issue07.pdf is a useful reference and sets the background for the general theme...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam iBrahiim

Thank you for this very interesting link It will be great if you could post some pics from your barrel.
Best Cerjak

Cerjak · 26th April 2015, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Greetings Ibrahiim
please could you let me know missing things needed to complete my Omani musket as you are an expert with these type of muskets,appreciate your inputs
kind regards
Rajesh

Hi Rajesh

Thank you to have post your Abu Fitila ,the only thing I don't see in your barrel it is may be the front sight But Im not sure ( yours pictures don't show it)
Best

Cerjak

kahnjar1 · 26th April 2015, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi Stuart ,
Well seen this one have a barrel around 90 cm and overall 130 cm.
I 'm still astonished at this barrel is more than 300 years old! Do you have a similar design in your barrel I would like to see.

Best

Cerjak

Yes the basic design is very similar to yours but not as ornate in terms of scroll work. Also there are no marks in the barrel recess.

kahnjar1 · 26th April 2015, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hello Cerjak,here is my Omani matchlock,missing few parts but that's the way I got it
AN OMANI MATCHLOCK MUSKET
Description: The rosewood stock of characteristic form with expanded butt. With profiled and pierced trigger, the brass barrel bands retaining the forearm sheathing. Barrel with finely profiled pan and rear sight, breach and muzzle deeply inlaid with brass. Retains its brass match receptacle and extinguisher, as well as a length of original match cord. Early 19th century. Ramrod intact. Overall length 140.7 cm.Condition II
Regards Rajesh

.... I do not see the match retainer/extinguisher.....

BANDOOK · 27th April 2015, 05:56 AM

HI STU,IBRAHIIM OR SOMEONE ELSE COULD HELP ME GET THAT PART AS ITS NOT AVAILABLE HERE,LET ME KNOW IF SOMEONE HAS A SPARE ONE TO SELL,MANY THANKS

kahnjar1 · 27th April 2015, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

HI STU,IBRAHIIM OR SOMEONE ELSE COULD HELP ME GET THAT PART AS ITS NOT AVAILABLE HERE,LET ME KNOW IF SOMEONE HAS A SPARE ONE TO SELL,MANY THANKS

Make one.....

rickystl · 27th April 2015, 07:54 PM

I'm not too familiar with these Omani matchlocks. So I can't really add much to this Thread. But the highly fluted and chiseled barrels are fabulous looking. It would probably not be unusual for 2 or 3 later period guns being made utilizing the same original barrel. Rick.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th April 2015, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

HI STU,IBRAHIIM OR SOMEONE ELSE COULD HELP ME GET THAT PART AS ITS NOT AVAILABLE HERE,LET ME KNOW IF SOMEONE HAS A SPARE ONE TO SELL,MANY THANKS

Salaams Bandook, The spare parts are dead rare ... however I shall keep an eye out for things like spare brass trigger and fire holders as well as the rope fuse wrapped around the butt and ramrods.... in due course. Where possible you may like to have a go at making them yourself...often the only way...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

BANDOOK · 28th April 2015, 02:05 PM

SAALAM IBHRAIIM
THANKS FOR REPLYING,INCASE YOU FIND THOSE ORIGINAL PARTS DO LET ME KNOW,AM SURE IN OMAN ONE CAN STILL FIND THEM,CHEERS
SUKHRAN HABIBI
RAJESH

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st June 2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

one more

Salaams I just need to slide in a few barrels as examples here...some are blown. It is interesting that Icoman see http://www.klm-mra.be/icomam/downloads/issue07.pdf appear to suggest a relationship with German barrels however I follow the Persia link. I throw in a picture of 3 Omani wooden powder flasks and a picture of tribals with abu futilla ...the one with the match..(Literal translation is Father of the Match). Added for good measure... is a shot...of the brass cases containing the barrel charge and wadd...which fit in a belt ...in the style of The Ottoman item. In addition various sketches of Omani tribal warriors with the weapon displayed. What I dont show here is the preferred use of skin ...wolf...around the butt probably with Talismanic properties.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd June 2015, 03:32 PM

Another artwork addition...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th June 2015, 06:13 PM

The tree from which the gunpowder was made and mixed with...Sodoms Apple...Roasted and mixed with sulphur etc... growing wild in my garden.

ward · 11th June 2015, 08:07 PM

Have you tried to make powder with this tree? Does it need large amounts of water to grow? I really am interested to know more about this. If it does not put up as much pressure as black powder it would explain how the stocks of a lot of these type of guns could be so fragile as compared to the European styles

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 11th June 2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

Have you tried to make powder with this tree? Does it need large amounts of water to grow? I really am interested to know more about this. If it does not put up as much pressure as black powder it would explain how the stocks of a lot of these type of guns could be so fragile as compared to the European styles

Salaams Ward, Yes it could prove interesting... The explosion at the breach end is a bit soft...but the problem is that this plant is very toxic... It is extremely poisonous... Typical for a poisonous plant it exudes a lot of milky sap...Even touching it is dodgey. It needs little water... being a desert plant...It has the annoying ability to send its roots way down deep....They are very difficult to get rid of. I believe the right terminology is that roasted the plant is ideal as a carrier for the rest of the concoction...The low tons per square inch at the breach may indeed be the reason for light Butts and Stocks.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ward · 11th June 2015, 10:48 PM

I live in high desert. That is why I am asking. We have a tree similar in the way that it grows called Mesquite. A hard wood that you break up with a sledge hammer and has roots that go 50-100 feet. I will have to see if I can get some seeds and get it to grow.

25th April 2015, 05:58 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	An Omani abu Fitila Matchlock gun for comment According to Elgood ( N°50 page 86) this Abu Fitila is with a 17 th century barrel of architectural form. any comment on it will be welcome Attached Images

25th April 2015, 06:00 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	ONE MORE PIC one more Attached Images

25th April 2015, 10:38 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Yes a nice Omani Abu Fitila. What is overall length of the piece? To me it looks quite short. I have one of these with overall length of 64" (1625mm) and barrel length of 46" (1170mm) Stu Attached Images

26th April 2015, 01:15 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 26th April 2015 at 01:27 PM.

26th April 2015, 02:04 PM	#7
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Hello Cerjak,here is my Omani matchlock,missing few parts but that's the way I got it AN OMANI MATCHLOCK MUSKET Description: The rosewood stock of characteristic form with expanded butt. With profiled and pierced trigger, the brass barrel bands retaining the forearm sheathing. Barrel with finely profiled pan and rear sight, breach and muzzle deeply inlaid with brass. Retains its brass match receptacle and extinguisher, as well as a length of original match cord. Early 19th century. Ramrod intact. Overall length 140.7 cm.Condition II Regards Rajesh Attached Images

26th April 2015, 02:08 PM	#8
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Greetings Ibrahiim please could you let me know missing things needed to complete my Omani musket as you are an expert with these type of muskets,appreciate your inputs kind regards Rajesh

26th April 2015, 03:01 PM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi all! The barrels are Persian barrels, according to Elgood. Better than his book on firearms, better to refer on his "Arms and armour of Arabia"...more informative if I may. For the Persian barrels, I think we should wait the book of Manoucher Khorasani. http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/bio...ire-and-steel/ I'm sure that it will be a very interesting book! Despite some critics about his work "Arms and armour from Iran" that I've seen on the forum. Manoucher Khorasani's work is really impressive and very informative. I guess it's always more easy to criticise than to do something. Regards, Kubur

27th April 2015, 05:56 AM	#14
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	HI STU,IBRAHIIM OR SOMEONE ELSE COULD HELP ME GET THAT PART AS ITS NOT AVAILABLE HERE,LET ME KNOW IF SOMEONE HAS A SPARE ONE TO SELL,MANY THANKS

27th April 2015, 07:54 PM	#16
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	I'm not too familiar with these Omani matchlocks. So I can't really add much to this Thread. But the highly fluted and chiseled barrels are fabulous looking. It would probably not be unusual for 2 or 3 later period guns being made utilizing the same original barrel. Rick.

28th April 2015, 02:05 PM	#18
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	SAALAM IBHRAIIM THANKS FOR REPLYING,INCASE YOU FIND THOSE ORIGINAL PARTS DO LET ME KNOW,AM SURE IN OMAN ONE CAN STILL FIND THEM,CHEERS SUKHRAN HABIBI RAJESH

3rd June 2015, 03:32 PM	#20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Another artwork addition... Attached Images

10th June 2015, 06:13 PM	#21
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The tree from which the gunpowder was made and mixed with...Sodoms Apple...Roasted and mixed with sulphur etc... growing wild in my garden. Attached Images

11th June 2015, 08:07 PM	#22
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Have you tried to make powder with this tree? Does it need large amounts of water to grow? I really am interested to know more about this. If it does not put up as much pressure as black powder it would explain how the stocks of a lot of these type of guns could be so fragile as compared to the European styles Last edited by ward; 11th June 2015 at 08:09 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

11th June 2015, 10:48 PM	#24
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I live in high desert. That is why I am asking. We have a tree similar in the way that it grows called Mesquite. A hard wood that you break up with a sledge hammer and has roots that go 50-100 feet. I will have to see if I can get some seeds and get it to grow.