Ottomans: jambia,hanjar or....

ariel · 6th February 2015, 08:22 PM

Middle-eastern dagger with curved blade is called hanjar in the Persian sphere of influence, and jambia in the Arab one ( yes, I am aware of shibria, koummya etc).

What is the correct name in the Ottoman Turkish areal? Where did they get it from? Yemen, since the beginning of the 16th century or Iran a bit earlier? Did the name come with the object or did they have their own one?

estcrh · 6th February 2015, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Middle-eastern dagger with curved blade is called hanjar in the Persian sphere of influence, and jambia in the Arab one ( yes, I am aware of shibria, koummya etc).

What is the correct name in the Ottoman Turkish areal? Where did they get it from? Yemen, since the beginning of the 16th century or Iran a bit earlier? Did the name come with the object or did they have their own one?

Ariel, are you talking about a dagger like this one?

ariel · 7th February 2015, 10:24 PM

Yes, like this one and others with different handles but similar blades.

Sancar · 8th February 2015, 09:57 PM

"Hançer" for single edged curved long knives; "kama" for double edged straight long knives, "saldırma" for S curved long knives(like a miniature yataghan), and bıçak as a general term for all kind of knives. There are also other older and regional terms(like my name "sancar" means short straight dagger

) but these are the ones generally used.

Oliver Pinchot · 9th February 2015, 02:42 AM

Thank you for that, Sancar. It would be very helpful to English-speaking members if you explain the pronunciation also, please?

Sancar · 10th February 2015, 06:57 AM

You are welcome Oliver, I'd like to help you wth pronounciation but I have no idea how to write phonetically. I can only say kama sounds exactly like the Japanese sickle weapon kama(both Altaic languages)

Andreas · 10th February 2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Thank you for that, Sancar. It would be very helpful to English-speaking members if you explain the pronunciation also, please?

In Google Translate, select English to Turkish, type dagger and knife and then click on the loudspeaker icon in the Turkish translation box to hear the words.
Andreas

Kubur · 10th February 2015, 09:45 AM

It sounds like Aladin's magic carpet!

ausjulius · 14th February 2015, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sancar

You are welcome Oliver, I'd like to help you wth pronounciation but I have no idea how to write phonetically. I can only say kama sounds exactly like the Japanese sickle weapon kama(both Altaic languages)

hey kama kindjal kinzhal ect come form the same turco-mongol rout words..
kazakh- kanzhar.. turkish- kama, aziri-xhansar, mongolian- chinzhaal, uzbek xhanjar.... russian form monglian- kindjal..

there is not a single word in common between japanese and turkish accept maybe japanese loan worlds like sushi..

japaese is not an "altaic" languages - that was an unfounded theory based on linguists trying to find a precursor language to both korean and japanese..

korean and japanese have ainu influences.. which is in its self a language isolate and not related to their languages either..
so there was ideas that maybe ainu is related to japanese and japanese to korean ect and maybe ainu is related some siberian languages .. but there is no evidence of this..

And in turn korean and japanese dont seem to have recent common roots either!!
japanes and korean are classed and unique language isolates..

it is presumed that they originate somewhere on the mainland of china and their related languages have disappeared with the spread of chinese languages.. a pattern that can be followed with other languages from the region

Sancar · 14th February 2015, 03:57 PM

This is not a linguistic forum and I'm not not a linguist but I read on several credible academic sources that, "Japanese as an Altaic language" theory is proven in mid 2000's, even though it was heavily criticised in 90's.

And I can personally say that modern Turkish and Japanese languages have exactly the same grammar and sentence construction. And that makes it very easy to learn Turks to learn Japanese, vice versa. Basically you only need to learn the words.

Even if, none of it is true; still, phonetically, Turkish word kama is read exactly like Japanese "kama", whatever the reason.

6th February 2015, 08:22 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ottomans: jambia,hanjar or.... Middle-eastern dagger with curved blade is called hanjar in the Persian sphere of influence, and jambia in the Arab one ( yes, I am aware of shibria, koummya etc). What is the correct name in the Ottoman Turkish areal? Where did they get it from? Yemen, since the beginning of the 16th century or Iran a bit earlier? Did the name come with the object or did they have their own one?

7th February 2015, 10:24 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, like this one and others with different handles but similar blades.

8th February 2015, 09:57 PM	#4
Sancar Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 79	"Hançer" for single edged curved long knives; "kama" for double edged straight long knives, "saldırma" for S curved long knives(like a miniature yataghan), and bıçak as a general term for all kind of knives. There are also other older and regional terms(like my name "sancar" means short straight dagger ) but these are the ones generally used.

9th February 2015, 02:42 AM	#5
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Thank you for that, Sancar. It would be very helpful to English-speaking members if you explain the pronunciation also, please?

10th February 2015, 06:57 AM	#6
Sancar Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 79	You are welcome Oliver, I'd like to help you wth pronounciation but I have no idea how to write phonetically. I can only say kama sounds exactly like the Japanese sickle weapon kama(both Altaic languages)

10th February 2015, 09:45 AM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	It sounds like Aladin's magic carpet!

14th February 2015, 03:57 PM	#10
Sancar Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 79	This is not a linguistic forum and I'm not not a linguist but I read on several credible academic sources that, "Japanese as an Altaic language" theory is proven in mid 2000's, even though it was heavily criticised in 90's. And I can personally say that modern Turkish and Japanese languages have exactly the same grammar and sentence construction. And that makes it very easy to learn Turks to learn Japanese, vice versa. Basically you only need to learn the words. Even if, none of it is true; still, phonetically, Turkish word kama is read exactly like Japanese "kama", whatever the reason.