Agarwood oil for keris?

[silkreeler]

Has anyone tried using Agarwood / Gaharu to mix with mineral oil to replace Sandalwood? Is Agarwood oil safe for antique kerises? Though hardly cheap, Agarwood oil is more available plus I like the scent. It is getting frustrating lately to get real Sandalwood. I was told that almost everyone in the keris community has unknowingly been using synthetic, German-made Sandalwood oil, but they thought they've been using natural Kupang Sandalwood oil.

[A. G. Maisey]

I've been using the German synthetic since the 1970's, I never ever thought it was the real thing, it was too cheap for one thing, and secondly it comes in a bottle with the German name all over it. I do not understand how anybody could believe that they're using natural oil. Not unless they're buying it from third parties rather than from the shops that sell oil.

But in any case, it makes no difference whether you use synthetic or natural, its the smell you want, and the actual protection is done by the other oil, which can be parafin, or Singer sewing machine oil, or in Indonesia, coconut oil.

I've never heard of anybody using gaharu for keris, we do use melati, and other sweet smelling oils, and we mix kenongo with it just sufficient to give it an edge. Gaharu is a bit too pungent I think for a keris blade.

[silkreeler]

Thanks. Anyway, I'm still curious about other "flavoring" options, as sometimes I do find kerises with sharp musk like smell (misik?). Is there any criteria about which natural oils are safe on old blades? Say, PH?

[A. G. Maisey]

None that I know of. Its about keeping the spirit of the blade happy. Many people use menyan on Thursday night.

[Sajen]

I have a sewar which has a strong smell of clove oil. Alan, have you ever heard about the use of clove oil?

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I have a sewar which has a strong smell of clove oil. Alan, have you ever heard about the use of clove oil?

A small amount of clove oil is traditional used for maintaining katanas and other Japanese blades.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

A small amount of clove oil is traditional used for maintaining katanas and other Japanese blades.

Hello David,

I've never smelled this oil, could the smell be such strong?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yep, clove oil for Japanese blades.

I did use clove oil for a while on keris blades, probably 50 years ago. I didn't like it much --- but its good for toothache.

[silkreeler]

Hi Sajen, clove is cengkeh. So just imagine an oil with very very intense aroma cengkeh. I heard that in the past the samurai may have used clove simply to differentiate between the oil for sword and oil for cooking. Not sure if it's true. Anyway, I was first shocked when I first smelled a katana, but then gradually I grew to like it better. The smell has some hint of courage and intensity, just my personal opinion. But I do like keris smells better. More options for expressions, from mysterious jasmine to noble cendana. But then some say jasmine is more suitable for feminine kerises. Is this some new, paranormal-based opinion, or is it one with strong cultural historical root?

[silkreeler]

I did handle some keraton quality kerises and they had a similar sharp fragrant aroma, even though the kerises were from different owners. I suspect it to be musk because it kinda smelled like "old days men's perfume". Is it common for Javanese nobilities to use musk flavored oil? I'm also tempted to buy musk essential oil and use it for my keris if it was a common practice / has good precedent.

[A. G. Maisey]

In Solo the most generally used oil in the past, and now, is sandalwood + kenanga + a base oil.

The sharp smell in this oil comes from the kenanga.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by silkreeler

Hi Sajen, clove is cengkeh.

Hi Silkreeler,

I know that clove is cengkeh in bahasa Indonesia! But thank you!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yep, clove oil for Japanese blades.

I did use clove oil for a while on keris blades, probably 50 years ago. I didn't like it much --- but its good for toothache.

Yup, it help! Thank you Alan and David.

[silkreeler]

Alan Maisey: Ohhh I see ... I really gotta check out kenanga then ...
Deflet: Okay!! Sorry, thought I just needed to clarify :d

[Gajah]

Traditionally vegetable oil was used for Japanese swords, usually camellia oil (tsubaki-abura 椿油) with a few drops (less than 5%) of clove oil (chōji-abura 丁子油). It has a yellowish color, and strongly smells of cloves. It absorbs moisture, but gums up easily when dried. It's also mildly aggressive (which is good for cleaning Japanese swords in a less-than-perfect state of preservation), but quite messy when it soaks into the sheath.

Mineral oil (kōbutsuyu 鉱物油) was used from the Meiji era on when mass-production of swords for the Japanese army started - it's cheaper and easily obtainable. It's clear, and thinner than vegetable oil, and doesn't deteriorate as fast; one also needs less of it compared to chōji scented vegetable oil.

[ariel]

Nothing beats good old WD-40: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" :-)

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Nothing beats good old WD-40: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" :-)

Well Ariel, on a practical level you might well be correct, however, many keris collectors choose to follow more traditional methods that honor the "spirit" of the blade. Fortunately your personal belief is not necessary to validate such traditions.

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually, I sort of half agree with Ariel.

My usual treatment for a keris blade is a thorough drench with WD40, I allow that to dry off overnight, it leaves a very light deposit on the blade, then I paint the blade with sandalwood @ 45% + kenongo @ 5% + medicinal paraffin @ 50%, all these percentages are approximate. Then I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve. Blades treated in this way will remain protected for years without further attention.

However, if I were to ignore tradition and were to be charged with providing the best protection possible, I would use a high quality modern gun oil + controlled humidity and temperature + storage on glass or perhaps perspex.

The thing about WD40 is that it penetrates:- it gets into the grain of the metal, into places that the heavier oils just don't reach, but sit in little gobs on top of the pore, I've seen this under a microscope, and often it seems that our heavier bodied oils provide their protection by sealing a pore by coagulation over its opening, but not by coating the actual surface of the indentation of the pore.

[Shakethetrees]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually, I sort of half agree with Ariel.

My usual treatment for a keris blade is a thorough drench with WD40, I allow that to dry off overnight, it leaves a very light deposit on the blade, then I paint the blade with sandalwood @ 45% + kenongo @ 5% + medicinal paraffin @ 50%, all these percentages are approximate. Then I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve. Blades treated in this way will remain protected for years without further attention.

However, if I were to ignore tradition and were to be charged with providing the best protection possible, I would use a high quality modern gun oil + controlled humidity and temperature + storage on glass or perhaps perspex.

The thing about WD40 is that it penetrates:- it gets into the grain of the metal, into places that the heavier oils just don't reach, but sit in little gobs on top of the pore, I've seen this under a microscope, and often it seems that our heavier bodied oils provide their protection by sealing a pore by coagulation over its opening, but not by coating the actual surface of the indentation of the pore.

Well... I like WD-40 for cleaning and removing old gunk from blades. In a lot of ways it's unbeatable.

But- it has some long term effects that are problematic.

1. It slowly dries and attracts dust, which in turn attracts moisture. Years ago I would use it to coat highly polished hammers after I use them. (I'm a silversmith.) Six months or so later, they were dried and a light coating of rust is in place of the WD-40. I now use RIG gun grease. It's very thick, and I carefully heat the hammer before I put it up and apply it with a brush, or simply dip the faces into the grease. The heat liquefies it and it runs off, cooling into a protective coating that is easily wiped of with a WD-40 moistened rag. But, and I've been at this for about twenty years, if I use a particular hammer that has not been used in a while, the head, while not rusted, has taken on a dark tone. Still polished smooth, but not silvery. Does not affect the surface one bit.

2. Now, since I'm from New Orleans, we had a little event here 9 years ago that most of you might remember. I was deeply involved in restoring flooded objects for years after, including some of my own things. Sword and knife blades that were flooded, (and some were submerged for weeks), that were protected with oil, (any type) did not do well at all. The oil washed away and rust took over, almost to the point of if the blade was not oiled at all. The difference was minimal. Blades, or anything else of ferrous nature, that were hot waxed came out with minimal damage. A cleaning and renewal of the wax was enough. This is not based on a few unique situations, but is how it came out in every situation.

So, I realize that culturally it is traditional to use different types of oils on blades, and for light protection it might be OK. But, for true, almost foolproof protection, my money goes on wax coatings.

I get to work on my own things rarely. (It's a case of the shoemaker's children always going without shoes.)

I wax them, period.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually, I sort of half agree with Ariel.

My usual treatment for a keris blade is a thorough drench with WD40, I allow that to dry off overnight, it leaves a very light deposit on the blade, then I paint the blade with sandalwood @ 45% + kenongo @ 5% + medicinal paraffin @ 50%, all these percentages are approximate. Then I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve. Blades treated in this way will remain protected for years without further attention.

However, if I were to ignore tradition and were to be charged with providing the best protection possible, I would use a high quality modern gun oil + controlled humidity and temperature + storage on glass or perhaps perspex.

The thing about WD40 is that it penetrates:- it gets into the grain of the metal, into places that the heavier oils just don't reach, but sit in little gobs on top of the pore, I've seen this under a microscope, and often it seems that our heavier bodied oils provide their protection by sealing a pore by coagulation over its opening, but not by coating the actual surface of the indentation of the pore.

Absolutely Alan. I also use WD40 as an initial coat before applying scented oils after a restraining or any major cleaning of a blade.

[A. G. Maisey]

STT, what you say about wax and hot wax application is a given.

This technique and material is widely known and accepted in the areas of weaponry, or cutlery, collection where smooth or polished surfaces are involved, mostly the people who use a wax opt for something like Antiquax, there's another wax of similar quality, the name of which escapes me at the moment, that is very popular amongst American collectors.

Unquestionably what you describe is the very best protective coating for smooth and polished surfaces, but always combined with a professional environment.

However, we're talking about keris, where application of wax interferes with too much with what can be seen, and wax is incredibly difficult to satisfactorily remove from the typical surface of a keris and other tosan aji.

In a situation where an oil coating attracts dust, a brush down with mineral turps will remove both the dust and the oil very easily and quickly. But if you wrap the oil coated object with plastic, then store sensibly, dust never becomes a problem.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by David

Absolutely Alan. I also use WD40 as an initial coat before applying scented oils after a restraining or any major cleaning of a blade.

David,
I am so glad to see you lightening up.
Thank you, Alan, for allowing David to free his inner child:-)

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

David,
I am so glad to see you lightening up.
Thank you, Alan, for allowing David to free his inner child:-)

Ariel, i am no more or less "lightened" after Alan's post than before. My original statement stands just as is i'm afraid and i have no idea what my "inner child" has to do with it. Yes, WD40 is very effective for practical purposes as i already conceded to you, however, you have walked into a conversation on the use of scented oils which are obviously intended to serve a more spiritual purpose in keris maintenance. You are, of course, welcome not to make any attempt at all to grasp concepts of the keris in context to the culture from which it originates. That is your choice. However, the fact still remains that your belief or understanding of these matters is still not necessary to validate these traditions for those that choose to follow them. Thanks for your helpful input though.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for your helpful input though.

You are welcome!
Enjoy the original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPT3RFTpSUw

[kulbuntet]

Excellent oil, but really expensive in pure form. There are 3 basic types of Minyak Gaharu, the Indonesian, Indian and Cambodian. Last one is best IMO

[spiral]

WD40 is excellent for penetrating, cleaning & water displacement, it does not offer long term protection on its own.

Its mostly solvent...not oil....

Spiral

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by silkreeler

Has anyone tried using Agarwood / Gaharu to mix with mineral oil to replace Sandalwood? Is Agarwood oil safe for antique kerises? Though hardly cheap, Agarwood oil is more available plus I like the scent. It is getting frustrating lately to get real Sandalwood. I was told that almost everyone in the keris community has unknowingly been using synthetic, German-made Sandalwood oil, but they thought they've been using natural Kupang Sandalwood oil.

If authenticity is not necessary for you, Machine tool slideway oils like "Shell Tonna S2 M 220" would be a good choice.
Machine tool slideway oil creates a thin film over the whole surface and has no tendency to resinify.

I am using it for all my antique blades and it is very good.


Kind regards Roland