Two Kerises, one possibly beyond repair?

blue lander · 13th November 2013, 04:25 PM

After discovering this website and spending a week or two reading threads, I decided I wanted a keris. I bought two off e-bay, and let's just say I'm happy with one of them.

This is the first one, the seller said it was from Bali. The keris is approximately 13” long total, blade 9-1/2”. I'm not sure if I'm counting right, but I think there's 13 luk. There's a Naga by the ganja. i guess the sheath is Ladrang style, which looks to me like the Java style rather than Balinese? Apologies if I'm using the wrong terminology here.

It seems much more crudely carved than any other keris I've seen while searching this site. I intend to attempt to clean that rust off with a lime, if that's appropriate.

Here's a closer shot of the pamor. Does this pattern have a name?

Here's the Pendok.

There's a peacock towards the top.

And finally here's the handle.

I guess my questions for this one are. Is it really from Bali? Is there any way to tell how old it is? Is there anything I should do as far as cleaning goes beyond trying to get that rust out? I really like this keris even if it isn't the most masterfully executed design . It even smells good, very faintly like expensive soap or aromatic candles.

Now for the second Keris I bought. I'll post that one next, but here's a preview.

Yes, those are file marks. Somebody sharpened the entire thing with a file. I assume it's beyond salvaging, but I'll post more pictures.

blue lander · 14th November 2013, 05:44 PM

Here's Keris #2

According to the auction, it's a ww2 bringback and supposedly a couple hundred years old.

Like I mentioned before, the edges are covered in file marks. I assume the previous owner tried to sharpen it, but is it possible it was just made this way? There's no greneng, it looks like somebody sharpened that area too. Or do some Kerises just not have greneng?

There's still very faint traces of pamor on the center of the blade, which is very pitted. Do I have any chance of bringing the pamor back if I treat it with waragan? I'm worried the outer layer of the blade was filed off around the edges, so even after etching it'll just be plain steel. If those file marks are definitely not original to the blade, I'd like to try to buff them out.

David · 14th November 2013, 07:01 PM

Hi Blue, welcome to the forum.
Your first keris is NOT from Bali as you suspected. The dress is indeed a ladrang (formal) Javanese style. The blade itself is fairly new (at least late 20thc or newer) and may well have come from a Madurese source. This type of keris copies a popular naga design and are aimed either towards export markets (tourists) or perhaps a local looking for a cheap keris for ceremonial (wedding?) dress purposes. If you can remove the rust locally i don't think you need to do anything else to the blade. WD-40 would be a good start. Soak it a bit, scrub with and old toothbrush, maybe use a metal pick on the tough spots.
Your second keris looks a bit older, but it's execution is even worse than your first. The file marks might have been made in an attempt to sharpen it (which never should be done with keris) or they might just be left from the original manufacture since this keris does not show much skill or craft. I would recommend soaking the blade in pineapple juice and scrubbing first with a toothbrush before getting any more aggressive with cleaning. If you search this site you will find many threads on the subject giving step-by-step.
I would also suggest that if you are seriously interested in keris that your best bet is to find a trusted dealer to buy from for the time being. Ebay does still have a few hidden gems to be plucked out there, but it certainly isn't the place for the inexperienced. Far too man junk blades, copies and outright counterfeits for the uninitiated.

blue lander · 14th November 2013, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the info! That first keris is much too small for actual use so I'm not surprised it was designed for ceremonial use or a wallhanger for tourists. I still like it even if it's a bottom shelf keris. I bought these to just "dip my toes" in kerises, I'll definitely be more careful when I get out of the $40-$50 range.

I'll soak the second blade in coconut milk to see how it cleans up. If that doesn't get me anywhere I'll move up to citric acid.

David · 15th November 2013, 09:38 PM

One request Blue. I have noticed that you have use hyperlinks to photo bucket when posting the majority of you images. We would like you to upload your images directly to the threads when you post. What unfortunately happens with these links is that down the line the owners remove their images from photo bucket (or whatever) and all we are left with on the forum are empty links. This completely thwarts our attempt to create a strong archive of images and discussion for future research. Discussion about a weapon that no longer appears on the page is quite useless. If you have any questions about how to post photos directly please see this thread in the "sticky" section. Thanks.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

Henk · 15th November 2013, 10:48 PM

Both keris are made for the tourist market. Real fakes. Sorry

If you really want a keris go to the keris swap forum. Two very nice keris for sale.

GIO · 16th November 2013, 02:04 AM

I fully agree with David and Henk, and think that any attempt to clean the blades would be only a waste of time. Also the Yojakarta style hilts are crudely made.

blue lander · 19th November 2013, 07:31 PM

Thanks for the information everyone. It's too bad they're both junk, but I'm still quite happy with the little one. I had already ordered a third cheap keris which hasn't arrived yet, but from here on in I won't waste any more money on tourist kerises. I'll post a picture when it arrives but I can already guess what the verdict will be.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you buy a keris from somebody who bought it as a tourist, it's probably a tourist keris.

blue lander · 19th November 2013, 07:39 PM

Thanks for the information everyone. It's too bad they're both junk, but I'm still quite happy with the little one. I had already ordered a third cheap keris which hasn't arrived yet, but from here on in I won't waste any more money on tourist kerises. I'll post a picture when it arrives but I can already guess what the verdict will be.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you buy a keris from somebody who bought it as a tourist, it's probably a tourist keris.

David · 19th November 2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Thanks for the information everyone. It's too bad they're both junk, but I'm still quite happy with the little one. I had already ordered a third cheap keris which hasn't arrived yet, but from here on in I won't waste any more money on tourist kerises. I'll post a picture when it arrives but I can already guess what the verdict will be.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you buy a keris from somebody who bought it as a tourist, it's probably a tourist keris.

Probably a good moral. There are also less and less sleeper deals to be found out there on ePray. If you have experience, a good eye and lots of luck you can sometimes still score some good deals, but it's always hit or moss. My best advice it to stay away from eBay for now, save up your money for a better quality keris and find a dealer you can put some trust in (there are some out there

).

blue lander · 20th November 2013, 11:03 PM

Okay, here's my final junk e-bay keris I promise. I guess this one is Bugis style, the blade is about 7 inches long. It has a little pamor, but it's quite rusty. I'm going to dunk it in coconut milk for a week and see if that loosens it up. I like this one, it isn't quite as tacky as the others.

I guess my only question is modern tourist piece or vintage tourist piece?

David · 21st November 2013, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

I'm going to dunk it in coconut milk for a week and see if that loosens it up.

I think what you want is coconut WATER, not milk. Though you might have better results with either vinegar or pineapple juice.

13th November 2013, 04:25 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Two Kerises, one possibly beyond repair? After discovering this website and spending a week or two reading threads, I decided I wanted a keris. I bought two off e-bay, and let's just say I'm happy with one of them. This is the first one, the seller said it was from Bali. The keris is approximately 13” long total, blade 9-1/2”. I'm not sure if I'm counting right, but I think there's 13 luk. There's a Naga by the ganja. i guess the sheath is Ladrang style, which looks to me like the Java style rather than Balinese? Apologies if I'm using the wrong terminology here. It seems much more crudely carved than any other keris I've seen while searching this site. I intend to attempt to clean that rust off with a lime, if that's appropriate. Here's a closer shot of the pamor. Does this pattern have a name? Here's the Pendok. There's a peacock towards the top. And finally here's the handle. I guess my questions for this one are. Is it really from Bali? Is there any way to tell how old it is? Is there anything I should do as far as cleaning goes beyond trying to get that rust out? I really like this keris even if it isn't the most masterfully executed design . It even smells good, very faintly like expensive soap or aromatic candles. Now for the second Keris I bought. I'll post that one next, but here's a preview. Yes, those are file marks. Somebody sharpened the entire thing with a file. I assume it's beyond salvaging, but I'll post more pictures.

20th November 2013, 11:03 PM	#11
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Okay, here's my final junk e-bay keris I promise. I guess this one is Bugis style, the blade is about 7 inches long. It has a little pamor, but it's quite rusty. I'm going to dunk it in coconut milk for a week and see if that loosens it up. I like this one, it isn't quite as tacky as the others. I guess my only question is modern tourist piece or vintage tourist piece? Attached Images

14th November 2013, 05:44 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's Keris #2 According to the auction, it's a ww2 bringback and supposedly a couple hundred years old. Like I mentioned before, the edges are covered in file marks. I assume the previous owner tried to sharpen it, but is it possible it was just made this way? There's no greneng, it looks like somebody sharpened that area too. Or do some Kerises just not have greneng? There's still very faint traces of pamor on the center of the blade, which is very pitted. Do I have any chance of bringing the pamor back if I treat it with waragan? I'm worried the outer layer of the blade was filed off around the edges, so even after etching it'll just be plain steel. If those file marks are definitely not original to the blade, I'd like to try to buff them out.

14th November 2013, 07:01 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Hi Blue, welcome to the forum. Your first keris is NOT from Bali as you suspected. The dress is indeed a ladrang (formal) Javanese style. The blade itself is fairly new (at least late 20thc or newer) and may well have come from a Madurese source. This type of keris copies a popular naga design and are aimed either towards export markets (tourists) or perhaps a local looking for a cheap keris for ceremonial (wedding?) dress purposes. If you can remove the rust locally i don't think you need to do anything else to the blade. WD-40 would be a good start. Soak it a bit, scrub with and old toothbrush, maybe use a metal pick on the tough spots. Your second keris looks a bit older, but it's execution is even worse than your first. The file marks might have been made in an attempt to sharpen it (which never should be done with keris) or they might just be left from the original manufacture since this keris does not show much skill or craft. I would recommend soaking the blade in pineapple juice and scrubbing first with a toothbrush before getting any more aggressive with cleaning. If you search this site you will find many threads on the subject giving step-by-step. I would also suggest that if you are seriously interested in keris that your best bet is to find a trusted dealer to buy from for the time being. Ebay does still have a few hidden gems to be plucked out there, but it certainly isn't the place for the inexperienced. Far too man junk blades, copies and outright counterfeits for the uninitiated.

14th November 2013, 07:41 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the info! That first keris is much too small for actual use so I'm not surprised it was designed for ceremonial use or a wallhanger for tourists. I still like it even if it's a bottom shelf keris. I bought these to just "dip my toes" in kerises, I'll definitely be more careful when I get out of the $40-$50 range. I'll soak the second blade in coconut milk to see how it cleans up. If that doesn't get me anywhere I'll move up to citric acid.

15th November 2013, 09:38 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	One request Blue. I have noticed that you have use hyperlinks to photo bucket when posting the majority of you images. We would like you to upload your images directly to the threads when you post. What unfortunately happens with these links is that down the line the owners remove their images from photo bucket (or whatever) and all we are left with on the forum are empty links. This completely thwarts our attempt to create a strong archive of images and discussion for future research. Discussion about a weapon that no longer appears on the page is quite useless. If you have any questions about how to post photos directly please see this thread in the "sticky" section. Thanks. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

15th November 2013, 10:48 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Both keris are made for the tourist market. Real fakes. Sorry If you really want a keris go to the keris swap forum. Two very nice keris for sale.

16th November 2013, 02:04 AM	#7
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	I fully agree with David and Henk, and think that any attempt to clean the blades would be only a waste of time. Also the Yojakarta style hilts are crudely made.

19th November 2013, 07:31 PM	#8
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the information everyone. It's too bad they're both junk, but I'm still quite happy with the little one. I had already ordered a third cheap keris which hasn't arrived yet, but from here on in I won't waste any more money on tourist kerises. I'll post a picture when it arrives but I can already guess what the verdict will be. I guess the moral of the story is that if you buy a keris from somebody who bought it as a tourist, it's probably a tourist keris.

19th November 2013, 07:39 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the information everyone. It's too bad they're both junk, but I'm still quite happy with the little one. I had already ordered a third cheap keris which hasn't arrived yet, but from here on in I won't waste any more money on tourist kerises. I'll post a picture when it arrives but I can already guess what the verdict will be. I guess the moral of the story is that if you buy a keris from somebody who bought it as a tourist, it's probably a tourist keris.