African Sword with European Mark

[manteris1]

Hi Everyone, I have a new sword, African, Manding with a European mark. I would really like to identify this mark. The sword is 29" probably shorten......................thanks............... ..........jimmy

[Iain]

A pity the rest of the text is faded. However, the mark closely resembles one attributed to a British based maker P. Spitzer. Since this is clearly a "G" somebody, I would guess it could be a continuation of the same workshop perhaps. The style of the head at least is a pretty good match.

G Spitzer I know from later bayonet blades, but there's probably been a lot of folks with the name over time.

[manteris1]

thanks Iain...................jimmy

[CharlesS]

Just noticing the baldric rings are on the edge side of the scabbard meaning that more then likely the sword hung edge side up under the wearer's shoulder...that might even explain why there are no superfluous ornamental tassals, etc. attached. This sword is all business!

[archer]

Jimmy, This makers mark appears on a koummiya They appear to be just initials with a period after each letter. The blade has remnants of silver plating. It's mounted in silver. I tried but, no luck as I recall finding out about the maker. Iains, suggestion may be correct. Regards, Steve

Oh, the sheath on this one has a Roman date 911 for 1911 made up of segments of coins, if I understand their system correctly. the second date looks to be 900 on another Koummiya. Please advise if I'm wrong and this this actually Arabic writing. Thanks, Steve

[Iain]

Great corroborating example Steve! I was more less taking a guess on Spitzer part, but seeing that your blade as the G.S. initials it becomes much clearer.

This would place it as a Solingen trade blade, which is about what you'd expect given the mounts and circumstances.

I've often wondered if some of these later Solingen blades started out as military pattern imports to equip local colonial forces?

[manteris1]

What about the Unicorn Mark................jimmy

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by manteris1

What about the Unicorn Mark................jimmy

Salaams manteris.. I didn't see the unicorn though I studied it for ages from different angles thinking it was some strange alphabet... soon as you said Unicorn my brain must have triggered (left brain right brain) and now it's clear. Thank you. Was the Unicorn the mark of GS swords?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams manteris.. I didn't see the unicorn though I studied it for ages from different angles thinking it was some strange alphabet... soon as you said Unicorn my brain must have triggered (left brain right brain) and now it's clear. Thank you. Was the Unicorn the mark of GS swords?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Yes... The examples shown in this thread are unicorn marks... I would have noted this but I thought it was clear. It's a variation on an older mark with the full bodied animal.

[thinreadline]

G.S. written in this style is also the mark of British bayonet maker George Salter & Co . They were based in Birmingham.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Iain

A pity the rest of the text is faded. However, the mark closely resembles one attributed to a British based maker P. Spitzer. Since this is clearly a "G" somebody, I would guess it could be a continuation of the same workshop perhaps. The style of the head at least is a pretty good match.

G Spitzer I know from later bayonet blades, but there's probably been a lot of folks with the name over time.

Hi Iain
Of course I am aware that in the 19th C , the British government used a lot of Solingen contract blade makers ( culminating in the great bayonet scandal of the 1880s ) , many of whom were based in Britai , but do you have any pictures of Spitzer marked British blades ? I have many of these contract blades but to date have never encountered a Spitzer marked one .

[Iain]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Hi Iain
Of course I am aware that in the 19th C , the British government used a lot of Solingen contract blade makers ( culminating in the great bayonet scandal of the 1880s ) , many of whom were based in Britai , but do you have any pictures of Spitzer marked British blades ? I have many of these contract blades but to date have never encountered a Spitzer marked one .

Sadly I don't, the reference was from one of the blade mark compendiums. I'll see if I can post an image later on, but it doesn't offer anything beyond a sketch of the unicorn head, the name and the mention of Britain.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Iain

A pity the rest of the text is faded. However, the mark closely resembles one attributed to a British based maker P. Spitzer. Since this is clearly a "G" somebody, I would guess it could be a continuation of the same workshop perhaps. The style of the head at least is a pretty good match.

G Spitzer I know from later bayonet blades, but there's probably been a lot of folks with the name over time.

Hi again Ian ,
I cannot locate the maker P- Spitzer but I have just checked out a ref in John Walters German Bayonets book...he mentions a Carl Gustav Spitzer 1873 - 1972 Solingen, Felder Str.
Stamp; a wide variety of marks applied including BAAS and Codex, devices used include a lion, a lion and a fish, a hammock, crossed open pocket iknives and the head of a farmer.
As you say , a late comer into the bayonet field not known to have been involved in the manufacture of edged weapons until c1938.
(Ref Walter p 158) .

[thinreadline]

I enquired with a friend who has an extensive library and he has just checked the two volume set by Schlesinger of the Solingen rolls/registers and has found a Gottried Spitzer 1865 and a Hans Peter Spitzer 1719 .

[manteris1]

you guys are the best....................jimmy

[thinreadline]

And just to add further to the mystery .. here is an Italian pistol from the 1860s with a very similar GS on it !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

And just to add further to the mystery .. here is an Italian pistol from the 1860s with a very similar GS on it !

Salaams thinredline, Was that not Guillaume Scholberg of Liege ?.. Famous Belgian gunmaking family.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams thinredline, Was that not Guillaume Scholberg of Liege ?.. Famous Belgian gunmaking family.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

You may well be right ..... but I have seen GS on a number of Italian guns too , including this one .