Unknown sword! Possibly Sumatran Battak with Pamor?

[William.m]

Hello all,

I have had this sword in my collection for many years having originally bought it on a whim from ebay from south east Asia.

I am posting it here as I would love to know what exactly it is as I haven't seen many like it. Also the sword has this amazing perfume scented oil that I can't quite pin down as to what it is. I would love to find out so I could re-apply to the blade.

Thanks all!

[Sajen]

Hello William,

can you post some more pictures from the sword where we can see the handle and an overall view of the sword?

Regards,

Detlef

[kronckew]

do you have photos of the blade/grip & scabbard? might help pin it down.

oil is scented with flowers, can be coconut oil, mineral oil. see this link for a recipe: LINKY


edited:
i see me and sajen posted over each other. luckily we agree

[William.m]

Here are some additional photos for you chaps! Apologies for the poor quality, I snapped them this morning on my phone.
Also thank you for the link for the recipe, I may give it a go!

[William.m]

OK so through searching though 8 year old emails I have managed to find the seller I originally bought the sword from, and by going though his listings he has a sword currently up for sale that is very similar to the one in question.

[kronckew]

hopefully sajen has some new info where it comes from. to me it looks like an older parang blade redressed in a new set of generic clothes (grip & scabbard), still nice tho.

it's like a japanese sword in shirasaya.

[Rick]

Could be, but I would find it a bit unsettling to see almost the exact same blade offered in the same dress .

Also William, active auctions are not allowed to be posted here .

[William.m]

Sorry Rick I didn't know. Ebay link removed.

I had a look through my emails where I was questioning the seller on the sword, and he said it had "new clothes". Personally I think the Shirasaya style fittings were made for the sword shortly before I bought it and that his business is to find old blades and mount them in a simple shirasaya for sale.

The sword that I was linking to is actually quite different to my sword, but the wooden fittings are very similar.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Rick

Could be, but I would find it a bit unsettling to see almost the exact same blade offered in the same dress .
...

i know a gentleman in Australia who sells a range of new malaysian/indonesian/phillipene bladed weapons (in mono-steel and laminated/pamour) by current smiths to patterns similar to these, tho usually with more traditional and decorative dress. he also rescues old blades, reconditions them and dresses them in new fittings very much like these if needed. he iws struggling 'Valiant'ly with the current batch of anti-sword laws in australia that has dried up many of his sources.

[Rick]

^ I remember that guy; I haven't seen his stuff on the web for some time, but then I don't get out much .
Good to hear he's still in business .

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Actually, at this stage, the edged-weapons ownership laws are not as bad as they first seem. Just needs more thought to work within them. Bottom line is, one has to be philosophical and be prepared to 'lose a shipment' if it has been deemed 'unlawful'. No pain, no gain!

I think 1D is fine. I just feel that his original market is not as 'brisk'.

The sword displayed in this post reminds me of climber/trekker S, from central java, who sells his stuff on E-prey and also via Germany.

Best,

[Sajen]

Back to the sword in question. My best guess: an old/antique javanese sword blade in newly made fittings. The oil you smell will be keris oil.

Regards,

Detlef

[Henk]

It is a pedang in a new dress. Not too bad.

[William.m]

Thank you to everybody who contributed to the thread!

The scented oil is really quite nice and I have found some on ebay, which I will buy as it is much nicer than choji oil.

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't have much to add to what has already been said, except that I can possibly be a little more definite about what I say.

This is a Javanese pedang blade, close examination will show that it predates 1850, the dress will be found to be from Javanese sandalwood (unscented). The style of dress is popular in Central Jawa, especially Solo.

It is important to understand that for the Javanese people, the spiritual value of any item of tosan aji is contained in the blade, not in the dress. For a collector of tosan aji the items of dress, hilt, scabbard etc., can certainly have a value when they are old or antique, most particularly when they are also of good quality, but very often the old Javanese weapons actually used in war lack their scabbards, and the hilts are frequently very utilitarian. So, what has happened is that old blades were frequently re-dressed in plain good quality wooden dress, or as often happened when pedang were still sometimes worn as items of dress in parades & etc., they were re-dressed in gold or silver.

Then there is the fact that many families have inherited weapons that they wish to keep and as a mark of respect they will re-dress the blade in a simple style to replace old and damaged original dress.

The hilt and scabbard that have been fitted to this blade appear to be of quite nice quality, whether the quality is as good as it appears to be will depend very largely upon two things:- firstly, is the scabbard carved from an unjointed piece of wood, that is, is there no join along the edges of the scabbard, and secondly, does the fit and finish give evidence of careful craftsmanship.

As Detlef has advised, the oil will be keris oil. I strongly recommend that the oil that originates in Indonesia not be used, as this has a coconut oil base that is not particularly wonderful for long term storage. It is far better to make your own oil using sandalwood or some other fragrance, such as jasmine and a base of medicinal paraffin. If oil is used, it will eventually stain the scabbard, so it is best not to store the oiled blade in the scabbard but to wrap it in plastic after oiling and store it out of the scabbard.

This is actually a pretty nice pedang.

[kronckew]

(
medicinal paraffin = mineral oil = unscented baby oil. (see again AGM's recipe in the other linked post)

of course if you are going to scent it, no need to hunt for the illusive unscented baby oil. the scented one is just fine if you add essential flower oils
)

i recently received a pair of swords from the phillipenes that were covered in coconut oil & wrapped in plastic, i initially thought it was vaseline, so i removed it and substituted a nicely anise scented mineral oil based multi-purpose product invented by the germans in the latter 19th century for steel, wood, leather preservation and cleaning... it even can be used as a wound antiseptic, it's anti-fungal and antibacterial. forget gurkhas feeling your shoe laces. they could tell by smell long before...

i hope the spirits of the 2 blades like it.

[drac2k]

Any chance one might get the recipe ?????

[A. G. Maisey]

In Australia medicinal paraffin is also sold as medicinal paraffin, which it seems is a laxative.

I'm pretty sure I've given this recipe here before, but to save looking:-

50% medicinal parafin, 45% sandalwood oil, 5% kenanga oil. Proportions are not critical.

I use a German synthetic sandalwood oil, and natural kenanga oil. Its probably impossible to buy kenanga oil outside of Indonesia. However, it is quite acceptable to use other oils to give the perfume --- jasmine, white rose, rose etc., etc. Main thing is that it is a pleasing smell. In Jawa sandalwood is pretty wide spread in its use, but sandalwood has a lot of variations, and they all smell different.

Kenanga oil is related to, but is not, ylang-ylang. I think , from memory, that kenanga is from the young flower, ylang-ylang is from the mature flower.

Light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil, also works well as a base.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...

I'm pretty sure I've given this recipe here before, but to save looking:-

...

i linked to the oil thread you posted in, in my post 3 above. which contains additional discussion.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Its probably impossible to buy kenanga oil outside of Indonesia.

AFAIK kenanga oil is also spelled "cananga". If you do a google search for this oil you will most certainly find it for sale in the US and Canada at fairly reasonable prices. Real essential sandalwood oil has become ridiculously expensive as it becomes rarer so i fully understand Alan using a synthetic here.

[A. G. Maisey]

Not only Alan, David, but everybody I have ever known in Jawa has used and uses synthetic sandalwood oil.

I was given the original recipe by the grandson of a famous m'ranggi back about 1977, at that time the grandson was about 35-40. He told me what to buy and where to buy it, and also told me that his grandfather used the same oils.

Apparently you can buy genuine sandalwood oil in some places in the Eastern Islands at reasonable prices, but in the places I go to I've never seen it, and would not know where to buy it.

David, that "cananga" oil that you see advertised might be ylang-ylang. In a local health food store I saw some small bottles of "canaga", and it definitely was not the kenanga that I use, additionally many years ago a friend who lives in Detroit sent me a tiny amount of "cananga" to check if it was the same as mine, it wasn't, but my daughter-in-law reckoned it was poor quality ylang-ylang.

Genuine natural kenanga --- or kenongo --- oil has very sharp piercing smell, almost takes your breath away and makes you want to sneeze. It is not really a very pleasant smell, the least you could say about it is that it is sharp.

[William.m]

Hi all,

I am deeply awed by the amount of discussion and advice on this thread. Thank you all very much for your contributions! I had no idea that the blade could be so old, this is wonderful as I was already very fond of this sword, and now even more so!

I spent the weekend searching my towns shops for oils but was not able to find anything suitable. I think I will just purchase the oils from the internet, following the recipe of 50% mineral oil, 45% synthetic sandalwood oil, 5% Jasmine oil.

Thanks all!

William

[A. G. Maisey]

5% kenanga oil.

jasmine might not smell so wonderful mixed with sandalwood, but by itself jasmine is pleasant, and a good alternative.

[William.m]

The difficulty is that I don't really know what any of these oils smell like, nor has the seller come back to me with the recipe of what he coats his blades in.

How about something like 95% Minerial oil and 5% jasmine?
The swords oil is currently very floral.

[A. G. Maisey]

No, just use jasmine + mineral oil instead of sandalwood + mineral.

The purpose of the kenanga is to give the smell a very slight edge, which enhances the smell of the sandalwood, so if you cannot get kenanga, leave it out and just use either:-

50% mineral oil + 50% sandalwood

OR

50% mineral oil + 50% jasmine

[William.m]

I found some sandalwood health products at a pharmacy and I can't say that I enjoyed the smell. So I shall go with your recommended 50% mineral oil and 50% jasmine. Thanks!

[A. G. Maisey]

Good quality sandalwood has a sort of a warm, sawdusty type of smell. Some of the poor quality sandalwood smells truly disgusting. I can fully understand if you didn't really like what you found in the pharmacy.