How do you know it's old?

Dmitry · 30th May 2013, 03:44 PM

That was the title of a great Harold Peterson book on antiques and fakes, which I recommend as worthwhile read to all that collect...old things.

This bar-shot just sold on eBay for over $500.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/rare-18th-ce...vip=true&rt=nc

How do we know that it is genuine age of sail implement and not newly-made?

kronckew · 30th May 2013, 06:25 PM

i like the bit where the connecting rod is welded to the half shot. being flat on one end for display surely also adds value.

Dmitry · 30th May 2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

being flat on one end for display surely also adds value.

Yes, it definitely adds to the WAF - 'wife acceptance factor'.

I also wonder about the rods being round. The vast majority of the ones I've seen have rectangular rods.

kronckew · 30th May 2013, 09:03 PM

yup, hadn't exactly noted that, the slightly flattened end twists threw me off.

they must have had a very good blacksmith, dedicated and willing to spend all that extra time forging it so nicely round. i'm sure the performance difference was worth the effort and reduction in productivity.

shame he spent so little effort on engraving naval scenes on it tho. that would make all the difference.

the one in this photo is not quite so beautifully finished.

note the lack of a weld fillet on the join to the shot halves, and the bars, while round, do show hammer marks from forging.

just for interest, the bar on the attached one appears to have been shrunk fit into the shot (heat the shot, hammer the cold rod into the expanded hole). there is an area around the join on the flat of the shot that looks discoloured, possibly by this type of operation. or were they cast along with the shot? seeing the face opposite the flats might be informative. could they have been threaded and screwed together hot to join them? should we set up a barshot factory? i'm sure mythbusters would test for us.

M ELEY · 30th May 2013, 10:31 PM

This reminds me of that thread I started awhile back concerning these rare items. Another red flag for these expanding bar shot are the sheer number of them that seem to pop up. Because they were a relatively primitive item, it doesn't take much to make a really good fake. I've always wanted a bar or chain shot for my collection, but with so many fakes, I've stayed clear for now. Dmitri, you are spot on with your observation about the vast majority of the bars being square and not round. I see many dumbbells being sold as shot also.

Dmitry · 30th May 2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

just for interest, the bar on the attached one appears to have been shrunk fit into the shot (heat the shot, hammer the cold rod into the expanded hole). there is an area around the join on the flat of the shot that looks discoloured, possibly by this type of operation. or were they cast along with the shot? seeing the face opposite the flats might be informative. could they have been threaded and screwed together hot to join them? should we set up a barshot factory? i'm sure mythbusters would test for us.

I think you're absolutely right re:the joining of the 'bun' to the rod by hammering it in while hot.
Check this out.

'Bar-Shot Factory' is a good name for a bar that would serve..shots only.

30th May 2013, 03:44 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	How do you know it's old? That was the title of a great Harold Peterson book on antiques and fakes, which I recommend as worthwhile read to all that collect...old things. This bar-shot just sold on eBay for over $500. http://www.ebay.com/itm/rare-18th-ce...vip=true&rt=nc How do we know that it is genuine age of sail implement and not newly-made? Attached Images

30th May 2013, 09:03 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	yup, hadn't exactly noted that, the slightly flattened end twists threw me off. they must have had a very good blacksmith, dedicated and willing to spend all that extra time forging it so nicely round. i'm sure the performance difference was worth the effort and reduction in productivity. shame he spent so little effort on engraving naval scenes on it tho. that would make all the difference. the one in this photo is not quite so beautifully finished. note the lack of a weld fillet on the join to the shot halves, and the bars, while round, do show hammer marks from forging. just for interest, the bar on the attached one appears to have been shrunk fit into the shot (heat the shot, hammer the cold rod into the expanded hole). there is an area around the join on the flat of the shot that looks discoloured, possibly by this type of operation. or were they cast along with the shot? seeing the face opposite the flats might be informative. could they have been threaded and screwed together hot to join them? should we set up a barshot factory? i'm sure mythbusters would test for us. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 30th May 2013 at 09:21 PM.

30th May 2013, 06:25 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	i like the bit where the connecting rod is welded to the half shot. being flat on one end for display surely also adds value.

30th May 2013, 10:31 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,095	This reminds me of that thread I started awhile back concerning these rare items. Another red flag for these expanding bar shot are the sheer number of them that seem to pop up. Because they were a relatively primitive item, it doesn't take much to make a really good fake. I've always wanted a bar or chain shot for my collection, but with so many fakes, I've stayed clear for now. Dmitri, you are spot on with your observation about the vast majority of the bars being square and not round. I see many dumbbells being sold as shot also.