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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Hello all. I've been reading the forum for some time now and decided to post a few photos of a Moro Kris I have that has a center section of twist core. The knowledge that has gathered here is a source that is unquestionably invaluable. Any information pertaining to the origin of this type of sword would be greatly appreciated.
The details are: Overall Length: 26 1/2 ” Blade Length: 21 5/8 ” Blade Width: 1 1/8 “ Blade Thickness @ gangya: 1/2 “ Scabbard Length: 23 7/8 “ As quoted by a good friend: "The straight double edged blade forged with a peripheral “mantle” of hard, lamellar steel flanking two rows of twisted cores in a very regular and controlled pattern. The cores are deeply etched to create a visual effect governed more by topography than by color contrast. The junction between the edge mantle and the central cores is defined by an inlay of copper/silver alloy, the design terminating in a stylized “serpent head” motif near the tip." Thanks for any help. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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Very nice Kris!
I got a lot of feedback on mine, with a similar center, in this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=798 Michael |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Great start for coming out of lurking mode, George - welcome among the k(e)risofanatics!
![]() That's a museum quality piece with apparently original fittings... ![]() Following Cato this would be a Maranao piece, of course. I really like these small kakatua pommels! I'm not sure if the topographical etch is really original but it's nice and I certainly wouldn't mess with it. Could you please post pics of the reverse side? I'm especially curious wether that arrow-like pattern design at the base of the blade is intentional (I'd guess so). Regards, Kai |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Welcome George!
I know this isn't particularly helpful but.....DR ![]() ![]() |
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#5 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
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Welcome George!
I must say that is a very nice kris ![]() Regards Lew |
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#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,162
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Welcome George.
That is a lovely Maranao kris, perhaps early 20th C. from its overall size and style. The central portion with twisted rod construction is particularly well done. The treatment of the edges and tip is similar to a large sword for which I posted pictures recently. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=6047&stc=1 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=6048&stc=1 My sword was commissioned in 1930 from a panday in Lanao del Sur by a U.S. administrator. Ian. |
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#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
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Ian
your link is a photo of a replica broad sword????? ![]() Lew |
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#8 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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George, thank you for posting this puppy. Though not unheard of, it is seldom that you see twist core in Moro, especially double twist core like yours.
![]() Regarding the panday training, I'm not sure that is had to be some one Chinese. I have a double twist core Bagobo piece and there are not many (if any) Chinese living in that area. I also like the silver inlay. ![]() |
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#9 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,162
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Ian. |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Kai,
Here is a quick shot of the other side of the blade. It has the arrow-like pattern you speak of but with a slightly different shape to it; a bit less pronunciation which I attribute to hammering. My experience with Chinese swords is that twist core of this creation (control in pattern, uniformity, etc.) is found in older pieces (pre-20th century at minimum). But the material on the scabbard reminds me of what is found in WWII frogs, etc. Thanks for the comments. George |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Hi All,
I noticed my last photo submittal was a bit out of focus after uploading it. Here is, I hope, a better shot. George |
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#12 | |||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Regards, Kai |
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#13 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,286
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Hi George here are some detail pictures of another Maranao twist core kris .
This blade has a wide shallow fuller incorporating the single twist ; you can also see a longer less distinctive 'arrow' feature on each side of the blade . In the case of this particular example I cannot help but wonder if this feature helps to incorporate the applied edges with the core for extra strength . Pardon the much manipulated pictures as this blade is not topographically etched and the details are very hard to bring out . |
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#14 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Philippines
Posts: 52
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Hi George, very nice Moro keris you got there. I personally sell Moro swords for some time now and haven't seen something like it. May I ask where did you get this beauty?
![]() Regards Charles |
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#15 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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Philkid, I have been thinking about what you have said for a while now. I think one of the reasons you have not seen the twist core there anymore is that probably most of them are under ground buried with the dead of the Moro-American Wars and the rest were taken at the turn of the century by Americans. This may be why we see more of them here in the US (and more of the fossil molar ivory pommeled Moro pieces, few that exist).
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#16 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hi Battara & Charles,
I do believe that there are still quite a few quality pieces in Moroland (and the Philippines in general). However, they will usually be closely guarded family treasures and not available to the public (for several valid reasons ![]() Regards, Kai |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
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philkid,
i'm with battara on this one. for starters, it appears to be that the twisted core is not a common type of kris. i also believe that whatever's left there (swords in general) are closely guarded family secret. i was informed by my uncle (by marriage) who's a muslim, that there'a a belief among the moro people that to part with pusakas (heirlooms) are considered very bad luck. i'm not saying everyone believe in this, but for the few (and i mean, very few!) that sell their family heirloom anyway, the chances of it having a twisted core like the one above is very, very slim... |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Hi Charles (philkid),
I am not sure of the history of this piece but a friend of mine who knows of my interest in well made pieces of steel got me this one. He's in California. He's not a dealer but is always looking for those interesting pieces whether for himself or for anyone he knows who would have interest. George |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Philippines
Posts: 52
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I agree with you Kai. I know an on Maranao and he told me that most of the swords the Americans brought back during the war were mostly without any importance to them. The ones they treasure were buried to avoid being taken. New generations of Moros do not really follow traditions anymore so they tend to sell off there heirlooms. Well I hope they sell it to me.
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#20 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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I don't know about all of the Moro pieces being brought over to the US weren't important to them. Some couldn't say because they were dead.
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#21 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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That pretty much fits with what we see: workhorse kris seem to come available locally (especially from Mindanao) on a regular basis whereas more fancy kris are pretty rare - coming out of the vendors backrooms only if deemed profitable. Thus, I'm not disputing that it's more likely to come across twisted core kris (and other fancy kris) in the US. However, I don't think that this is because there are very few left in Moroland though. Regards, Kai |
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#22 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Regards, Kai |
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#23 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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One of my points exactly Kai.
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#24 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 327
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One of the best, thanks for sharing. I've been told, by two seperate sources, that the best of the "Moro" swords are in private Manila collections. I tend to believe it.
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#25 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Philippines
Posts: 52
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Kai, I couldn't agree with you more. It was most likely taken by force. :
Last edited by Lee; 7th October 2005 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Removal of personal information |
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