Ottoman dagger-knife?

[chregu]

Hello
my new entries this weekend.
looking for opinions about the origin, age and originality.
Thanks for your help.
greeting Chregu

[A.alnakkas]

Nice, I like this one alot. Trabzon knife, turkish?

[chregu]

Hello
Many thanks for your answer. do you have more info on this type of knife?
greeting Chregu

[Stan S.]

I love the fullers on that blade!

[Dom]

Originally Posted by chregu

Hello
my new entries this weekend.
looking for opinions about the origin, age and originality.
Thanks for your help.
greeting Chregu

Hi Chregu
comments (who involve ... only me ...);
- the blade looks more Indo-Persian than Ottoman
- the "cross" on top of the handle ... difficult to imagine, that this dagger was belonging to a Muslim
- the handle design is more in Asia-Minor style than Turkish
- for the age, I guess ± 19th C.
appreciation;
- very attractive dagger, I like the blade and the handle's decor and appreciable that the scabbard been present and in good condition
nice catch ... congratulations

à +

Dom

[chregu]

Hello
Thank you for all your effort!
I cleaned the blade on a small spot something and etched (iron 3 chloride)
and behold, wootz blade! smile

[Ronald]

COOOL!!! This dagger belonged to my collection until last October. I let it restore some years ago and changed it togehter with another item for a really fantastic Hungarian Hussar sabre from the early 17th century. Nice to see my former dagger here.

Greetings!
Ronald

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Chregu
comments (who involve ... only me ...);
- the blade looks more Indo-Persian than Ottoman
- the "cross" on top of the handle ... difficult to imagine, that this dagger was belonging to a Muslim
- the handle design is more in Asia-Minor style than Turkish
- for the age, I guess ± 19th C.
appreciation;
- very attractive dagger, I like the blade and the handle's decor and appreciable that the scabbard been present and in good condition
nice catch ... congratulations

à +

Dom

Salaams Dom~
I think that is an interesting point about the cross~ However I dont think it is what you suggest. The cross is a form used to illustrate a welcome sign and seen on carpets especially near or on the "Yurt" tent door (Katchli or Hutchlu designs) I also see this style of what could be crossed arrows on textiles and rugs from the Caucasus. Interestingly there are 33 grooves etched into the quadrangle and as 33 is the short number for the Muslim religious prayer words(Quranic Names) and 99 in the expanded version ( same for the prayer beads ) Not withstanding that the hilt is decorated in a series of geometric placed studs in the figure 5 format often seen in Islamic work depicting the hand of fatima (5 fingers). Thus we seem to have an Islamic dagger.
Regards
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I think that is an interesting point about the cross~ However I dont think it is what you suggest.

Aleikum Salam Ibrahim
you are probably right,
myself I never bring more importance about this (cross) sign,
what is for me, a decor element, and not necessarily, a religious expression

my remark was the reflect of comments that I got,
during all the years spent in Middle-East, and even in Egypt
I understood that was a sensitive point, and I kept this in my mind
this, explaining ... that

best regards

à +

Dom

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Dom

Aleikum Salam Ibrahim
you are probably right,
myself I never bring more importance about this (cross) sign,
what is for me, a decor element, and not necessarily, a religious expression

my remark was the reflect of comments that I got,
during all the years spent in Middle-East, and even in Egypt
I understood that was a sensitive point, and I kept this in my mind
this, explaining ... that

best regards

à +

Dom

Salaams Dom ~ I think we can work around the cross thing, as usual, very effectively. The reference I meant to show today I accidentally left at home so it will be done tomorrow .. and will show a "Chelaberd" carpet with Kazak arrow patterns. I think the dagger pommel shows 4 arrows meeting in the middle (rather than a deliberate cross, though as I say, cross insignia are common on silk road and regional textiles/rugs depicting lighted candles as a welcome sign ) and flanked by what I see as the 33 marks. The figure 5 marks on the hilt are classic designs in the region. I would say from the Kazak area roughly running from Astrakan south down the western side of the Caspian ~ thereabouts. Rug picture will follow tomorrow.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ~Arrow pattern~ In fact it is likely that the sunburst pattern migrated from Persia to the Kazak region in about the 17thC, however, it illustrates my point. Whether or not there is a relationship to the dagger design is another matter but I throw this in for interest..
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[chregu]

hello together
many thanks for this interesting clues.
nice sunday wants Chregu