Hilt ID

paolo · 14th March 2012, 03:18 PM

I got this clear horn keris hilt. From where ? and what kind of hilt ?
Thank You for any help.
Paolo

David · 14th March 2012, 04:17 PM

hmmm....that is both cool and freaky.
Perhaps a "Lord of the Ring" Gollum hilt. "My Precious...."

paolo · 14th March 2012, 06:26 PM

It's very worn by the use, but the face, more than Gollum, rembers to me the traditional Cirebon ancestor/raksasa/prince , not so hairs and body..... surely not Cirebon, may be Sumatra ..... a kind of Jawa Demam ? but hasn't the "shawl over the shoulder .....
Paolo

David · 14th March 2012, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo

It's very worn by the use, but the face, more than Gollum, rembers to me the traditional Cirebon ancestor/raksasa/prince , not so hairs and body..... surely not Cirebon, may be Sumatra ..... a kind of Jawa Demam ? but hasn't the "shawl over the shoulder .....
Paolo

Paolo, i am not sure we can lump "ancestor/rakasa/prince" all into one category.

Certainly i think we can see some resemblance to the raksasa or buta hilt form, thought the hands in those seem to most generally grip or rest upon the knees.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=buta+hilts

Sajen · 14th March 2012, 08:06 PM

Very nice and interesting hilt! And a very rare material. My first thought when I see it was Sumatra. Is it possible to see a picture from the carving up from the head?

Regards,

Detlef

paolo · 14th March 2012, 08:12 PM

Thank You David, very interesting thread. I'm really pragmatic; I wish catalogue all.... but i see that for Archipelago hilts, kerises and weapons is quite difficult.
I don't think to have a great hilt, but I got it for the clear horn ( it seems to me quite peculiar) and for the form it had ( IMO dued to extended use ).
I don't know why but I vote Sumatra
Paolo

paolo · 14th March 2012, 08:27 PM

Bad light, the pics are the best i could do.
Paolo

Sajen · 14th March 2012, 09:13 PM

Hi Paolo,

my "feeling" says also Sumatra but there are some other possibilitys like Cirebon or Sumbawa.

Maybe not a "great hilt" but I am a little bit green with envy!

Regards,

Detlef

paolo · 14th March 2012, 11:58 PM

Thank You Detlef

David · 15th March 2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Maybe not a "great hilt" but I am a little bit green with envy!

I am also enjoying it quite a bit.

asomotif · 15th March 2012, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Maybe not a "great hilt" but I am a little bit green with envy!

So that is why they sometimes call it "green buffalo horn".

Very attractive hilt in an unusual material.
I am not that educated in style forms and origins etc.
But as for the wear of the hilt. I dont think the face was worn down to this smooth surface. the details on the top and back are in prestine sharp condition.
I rather have the feeling that the face is not yet finished for some reason.
Somebody started to carve the eyes and maybe realised that he would not have sufficient material to carve the image he had in mind

Best regards,
Willem

David · 15th March 2012, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

But as for the wear of the hilt. I dont think the face was worn down to this smooth surface. the details on the top and back are in prestine sharp condition.

I agree. Given how this handle would be held, wear should be along the spine of the figure...

Rick · 15th March 2012, 02:24 AM

If I might offer an idea; possibly there were inserts where the eyes are .

Amuk Murugul · 15th March 2012, 06:10 AM

Hullo everybody

I tend to support Rick's suggestion. I'd even go so far as to suggest that the inserted 'eyes' were 'sparklers'. Has anyone considered that this figure is a representation of a female?

There are those who believe that buffalo horn tends to turn 'brownish'/caramel-coloured with age (after about 100 yrs). This colour tends to turn 'whitish'/'milky' with further aging.

Best,

paolo · 15th March 2012, 10:48 AM

I can't send now a detail of the eye (photocamera discharged), but looking carefully eyelashes are carved and below there is a smooth surface, but, IMO the only way to attach something is glueing it.
Why You say is a female figure ? Pheraps the large abdome = pregnant ?
Paolo

paolo · 15th March 2012, 07:34 PM

Here are the close up.
Paolo

Rick · 15th March 2012, 07:41 PM

Okay, possibly a little horn loss under one/both eyes ?
(I see the new pics)
Perhaps they bulged originally and they have fallen or broken off .

I think Lombok in origin; a feeling .

I wonder if this hilt represents a metamorphosis in process as it is so vague in form except on the back where it is very detailed .

The forming of a Kocet Kocetan ?

We can only guess what the carver was thinking .

Marcokeris · 17th March 2012, 01:38 PM

IMO this hilt could come from Sumbawa......or Lombok

Hartadi · 7th April 2012, 06:42 AM

I migh be late

I have seen the flower model at the top and back carved made in Lombok. The material from buffalo horn with special color that called " tanggek cemaning "

paolo · 8th April 2012, 10:21 AM

Never too late! So it might be Lombok.
Paolo

14th March 2012, 03:18 PM	#1
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Hilt ID I got this clear horn keris hilt. From where ? and what kind of hilt ? Thank You for any help. Paolo Attached Images

14th March 2012, 08:27 PM	#7
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Bad light, the pics are the best i could do. Paolo Attached Images

15th March 2012, 07:34 PM	#16
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Here are the close up. Paolo Attached Images

15th March 2012, 07:41 PM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Okay, possibly a little horn loss under one/both eyes ? (I see the new pics) Perhaps they bulged originally and they have fallen or broken off . I think Lombok in origin; a feeling . I wonder if this hilt represents a metamorphosis in process as it is so vague in form except on the back where it is very detailed . The forming of a Kocet Kocetan ? We can only guess what the carver was thinking . Last edited by Rick; 15th March 2012 at 08:02 PM.

14th March 2012, 04:17 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	hmmm....that is both cool and freaky. Perhaps a "Lord of the Ring" Gollum hilt. "My Precious...."

14th March 2012, 06:26 PM	#3
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	It's very worn by the use, but the face, more than Gollum, rembers to me the traditional Cirebon ancestor/raksasa/prince , not so hairs and body..... surely not Cirebon, may be Sumatra ..... a kind of Jawa Demam ? but hasn't the "shawl over the shoulder ..... Paolo

14th March 2012, 08:06 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Very nice and interesting hilt! And a very rare material. My first thought when I see it was Sumatra. Is it possible to see a picture from the carving up from the head? Regards, Detlef

14th March 2012, 08:12 PM	#6
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Thank You David, very interesting thread. I'm really pragmatic; I wish catalogue all.... but i see that for Archipelago hilts, kerises and weapons is quite difficult. I don't think to have a great hilt, but I got it for the clear horn ( it seems to me quite peculiar) and for the form it had ( IMO dued to extended use ). I don't know why but I vote Sumatra Paolo

14th March 2012, 09:13 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hi Paolo, my "feeling" says also Sumatra but there are some other possibilitys like Cirebon or Sumbawa. Maybe not a "great hilt" but I am a little bit green with envy! Regards, Detlef

14th March 2012, 11:58 PM	#9
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Thank You Detlef

15th March 2012, 02:24 AM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	If I might offer an idea; possibly there were inserts where the eyes are .

15th March 2012, 06:10 AM	#14
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody I tend to support Rick's suggestion. I'd even go so far as to suggest that the inserted 'eyes' were 'sparklers'. Has anyone considered that this figure is a representation of a female? There are those who believe that buffalo horn tends to turn 'brownish'/caramel-coloured with age (after about 100 yrs). This colour tends to turn 'whitish'/'milky' with further aging. Best,

15th March 2012, 10:48 AM	#15
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	I can't send now a detail of the eye (photocamera discharged), but looking carefully eyelashes are carved and below there is a smooth surface, but, IMO the only way to attach something is glueing it. Why You say is a female figure ? Pheraps the large abdome = pregnant ? Paolo

17th March 2012, 01:38 PM	#18
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO this hilt could come from Sumbawa......or Lombok

7th April 2012, 06:42 AM	#19
Hartadi Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 56	I migh be late I have seen the flower model at the top and back carved made in Lombok. The material from buffalo horn with special color that called " tanggek cemaning "

8th April 2012, 10:21 AM	#20
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Never too late! So it might be Lombok. Paolo