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#1 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
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HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE.
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails?
Stu |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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It looks very like the classic "Mediterranian Dirk" but with a stiletto point. Makes sense actualy, a knife edge for utility cutting and a stiletto point for combat. A real bespoke piece and very nice to have.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 227
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An eating utensil? The point can be used as a skewer (instead of a fork) and the cutting ege is for cutting... Just a guess
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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A blade to cut the sail-cloth, an awl to make the holes and a hook to pull the yarn through. Just a guess though. It's certainly a good looking and quality item. I'd also agree mediterranean. Possibly naval rather than 'fisherman'. Last edited by Atlantia; 15th February 2012 at 09:53 AM. Reason: because I can't spell 'mediterranean' lol |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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Definately looks European though Barry. You could try the Euro forum?
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#7 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27
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The fluting (or whatever) suggests this is Italian (or maybe French) as they are the main ones who heavily used that sort of decoration - it is also found in furniture. It doth have a Baroque-ish smack to it. A distant variant is the spiral columns of the Vatican altar.
As for the application, if there is a hole in the end it would likely be used for pulling cord, but if not sails then maybe upholstery. If the blade is sharp or has a slightly chisel edge that may give a clue to use. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 180
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The handle looks like it is made of a cut section of twisted vine (tropical?) more than carved, is it? Is it wood at all?
To me it certainly looks like a specialised tool from around the 1830's, perhaps Italian or Spanish as does the iron decoration indicate. It certainly belonged to a craftman specialised in a particular job, maybe on mainland or maybe on board of a ship (hence the tropical addition?). >>>just my humble thoughts on this item<< ![]() |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: switzerland
Posts: 298
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hello together
Europe for sure! would tap Italy, but also could be Corsica, a possibility. however, a beautiful piece! gruss chregu |
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#10 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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UNFORTUNATELY ALL I HAVE IS A PICTURE OF THIS KNIFE/TOOL. I SUSPECT THE GRIP IS EITHER CARVED EBONY OR HORN. THE SPOT ON THE BLADE APPEARS TO BE DISCOLORED NOT A HOLE FOR THREADING. NOTE THE GAURD ON ONE SIDE BY THE BLADE. IT IS THERE TO KEEP THE HAND FROM SLIDING DOWN ONTO THE BLADE. IT WOULD APPEAR THIS IS A COMBINATION TOOL FOR PERFORATING HOLES IN SOMETHING REQUIREING A FAIR AMOUNT OF FORCE. IT ALSO HAS THE BLADE FOR CUTTING. WORKING ON SAILS AND RIGGING IS A GOOD SUGGESTION.
THE ITEM IS WELL MADE AND THE WORKMANSHIP DOES REMIND ME OF FRENCH OR ITALIAN WORKMANSHIP. PERHAPS SOMEONE WILL SEE THIS IN THE FUTURE AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT S AND FILL US IN. IN THE MEANTIME ITS FUN TO GUESS. ![]() |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
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my first thought was an artillery dagger/cannon vent prick. (bombardier's stiletto)
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#12 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,286
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This piece is way too fancy to be a rigging knife of any kind, IMO .
![]() It is not a Fid either . Sailmaker's Palm below . |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Salaams all ~ My guess is Bull Fighters knife...
![]() Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ps In Oman we have bull fighting... but in this case its between two bulls giving each other no more than a headache!! ![]() |
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#14 | |
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Salaams VANDOO ~ I was researching something quite obscure (Genoese Naval Swords) and bumped into the Genoese Knife style you show at # 1. Please see www.sangiorgioaste.com Solved !! Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Looks like the skewer in a meat carving set.
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#16 |
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so, what is it?
(i can't read the illustrated page, ibrahim) (also can't read italian ![]() the perforated tip does lend itself to some sort of sailor's dagger also used for sail repair and/or fancy knotwork. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hello,
This a Genovese knife "con passacorda", referring to the thin blade tip. It was supposedly indeed used for rigging and knots. The slit in the blade, or sometimes in the tang when the handle unscrews from the blade, is known as the "cruna" and basically makes a larger threading needle. That's a wonderful book by the way with excellent information, but in Italian. I will look up the specific info when I get home tonight. Here is a page from "Dizionari Terminologici - Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (Florence, 1980) for additional reference. See F and G, terms, 10 and 26. Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 9th April 2014 at 03:39 PM. |
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#18 |
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I got a reasonable translation by pressing the little flag top right on the website reference but anyway this is not only an excellent matelots weapon/ rigging tool but became famous as a dastardly dagger up the back alleyways in Genoa on dark nights...and the book goes on to describe its reputation and prohibition as an illegal blade..I cant think why...
Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Yes, they do seem to be wonderful little trouble makers.
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#20 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE FORUM BEING A GOOD POINT OF REFRENCE ONE NEVER KNOWS WHAT ONE MAY FIND IN OLD POSTS
![]() FORUM MEMBERS GUESSES, VAGUE MEMORIES AND USE OF LOGIC CAME CLOSE IN SOME CASES BACK THEN BUT NOW WE HAVE SOLID REFRENCE AND INFORMATION AT LAST. SO POSTING A PICTURE OF A UNUSUAL ITEM THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CAN BRING ANSWERS HERE. ![]() ![]() |
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#21 |
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Salaams ...
Great work Emanuel ...thanks VANDOO... All this is now preserved in library...all hard wired in ! Nice publication too. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() |
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#22 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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Well done Ibrahiim!!!! You really nailed this one!!!!!
What outstanding research, thank you for entering this. While everybody had great observations, I couldn't fathom what in the world this was, and never seen one before. |
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#23 | |
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Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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A great thread! Good work! fascinating!
Spiral |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Hi Ibrahiim,
Nicely done and well remembered. I'm sure there are more than a few Forum members, mostly of a certain age group ![]() ![]() ![]() My Regards, Norman. |
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#26 | |
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![]() Pleasure to help... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th April 2014 at 07:16 AM. |
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#27 |
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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Here are a few relevant pages from "Il Coltello Genovese" Most of the illustrated examples seem to date from the 17-18th centuries.
The text is basically descriptive. I can provide rough translations but I'm sure there are native Italian speakers on the forum that might help. Emanuel |
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#28 |
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p2
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#29 |
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p3
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#30 |
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p4
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