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#1 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 118
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Dear colleagues,
That's what appeared recently at our local arms forum, its' owner doesn't know what it is and neither do I, but it seems for me it's hardly a weapon but maybe a tool of a carpenter, or a kitchen tool (?). It also has some marking in arabic Please judge...thank you all in advance! Last edited by Rick; 31st January 2012 at 03:34 PM. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
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Any dimensions? Looks as if it could be a chisel of some sort. Does the knob at the top show any signs of having been hit?
Regards Stuart |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
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Interesting piece, Id guess a kitchen tool, could be cleaver,tenderiser,flipper etc.
Are any of the edges sharp? If so which? Spiral |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nashville
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Interesting item, no idea what it is however. Not a cooking tool, or for any kind of cleaving, not sure of the size but could be a shoemakers tool. Anyways, the 2 smaps in the bottom read استاد شبان Ustaad Shabaan. Ustaad means a teacher as well as a master, so it could be make by Ustaad Shabaan or was for him. Shabaan is a name but also means shepard. Get me a better picture of the top stamo and I can see what it reads.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
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Looks like a builders 'brick chisel' or stonemasons tool.
The mushroom end suggests it was to be struck. I'm guessing it is 'sharp' on the opposite end, not on the sides? |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
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This is Persian meat cleaver. probably of Qajar period.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nashville
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Now if we say it is a meat cleaver from some back wood island nation that did not have any concepts of simple Physics, then sure why not it is a meat cleaver. But so say it is a meat cleaver from a part of the world that probably invented meat cleavers (did a wiki and aparently chinese did the invention which persia traded with for 1000s of years) then that is just plain silly.
meat cleaver |
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#8 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,284
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Without more and better pictures and a better description of the piece we are going to have a hard time with identification ..
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#9 | |
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I am assuming it is possible that we are seeing the tang & forged pommel at that one time had a wooden or leather handle? As Rick stated Dimensions, description & good photos are needed. Spiral |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
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![]() no need for Physics or any other science. one either knows/bases an opinion on some related data, or thinks he knows ![]() |
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#11 |
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Wow, great catch Alex, I wouldn't have guessed.
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#12 | |
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Location: The Sharp end
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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this one is easy. its all in the books
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#14 |
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Location: Nashville
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I dunno, to me it just does not make sense that all along people were using regular meat cleavers and all of a sudden they went retarded and started making not so useful meatcleavers. All the classical books I had read when I was younger depiced them as we see them now, even today I checked my old Persian dictionary and surprisingly it had a drawing of a meatcleaver that looked as it does today. who knows, then again Western books gave many wrong names to items that make the local people
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
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This meat cleaver is probably designed to break through bones (hence it is more of a sturdy wedge to be struck with a hammer, rather than being lighter axe-like implement). I am very curious however as to why some are rather lavishly decorated? Clealry not a tool of a simple butcher... Were these intended to be used at the table rather than in the kitchen? And if so, are there any specific traditions/customs surrounding their use?
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#16 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 118
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Thank you all very much! Unfortunatelly it's not mine and I don't kniw the dimensions, while the original owner is still offline.
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#17 | |
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Do not let the "intricacy" of depiction full you. It is very simple and was done in bundles by the lowest-paid workers using the same template (likely to fetch a bit more money for being "decorated"), but the prestige of such decoration is according. |
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#18 | |
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Location: musorian territory
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then an axe used for the smaller work. not at all what is used today |
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#19 |
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Meat Cleaver or not? Recently Imperial auctions sold a similar item, and called it a "Persian Cleaver,Oajar Dynasty,Characteristically carried in Muharram processions." This one appeared to be gold inlaid(not etched), and of good quality.
I now see one advertised in Fagan Arms as an "18th Century Persian Executioner's Ax;"Have any other opinions emerged since 2012 ? |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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I think that "torture tool" or "executioner's tool" might be more enticing and exciting than just a "butcher's cleaver" ( for a certain kind of creeps, at least). Brings more moola.
Several times in my e-bay career I came upon a misidentified beheading sword offered for a song. Did not even bid on it. Did not want it to enter my house even for a moment. |
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#21 |
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So do you have an opinion as to the nature of this item ?
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Sorry, were you asking me?
Just a butcher's cleaver, as was said by Alex. |
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#23 |
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Thanks.
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#24 | |
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