west african knife. Which tribal group ?

Mauro · 29th October 2011, 12:58 PM

Hello everybody, I bought this knife that the seller attributed to West Africa. I share his attribution although I do not know any other similar knife. In fact the form of the blade, 70 cm long, show some similarities with the Baulè knives. The blade is original and it has not been shortened. It is very well made, flexible and sturdy at the same time. I would say that it is european. The handle is very peculiar because it is decorated with copper wires with intricate design that I have seen only in some Tuareg daggers.
Does anyone have more informations ??

Sajen · 29th October 2011, 01:28 PM

I have seen similar wire work by Philippine/Moro blades! But never a knife like this.

Regards,

Detlef

Iain · 29th October 2011, 01:35 PM

The blade makes me think of Baule tribe as well.

Some past threads that might be of interest:
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=baule
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=baule

The hilt on your sword however does not appear Baule to me...

Mauro · 29th October 2011, 04:25 PM

Yes, Iain, the blade has some similaritiy with a Baule but I noted these decoration on some Telek. I add for camparison some photos I copied in the web.

Iain · 29th October 2011, 05:00 PM

Hi Mauro,

I agree the sword is probably not Baule, it is possible to see this blade style in other cultures.

For example here is an almost takouba like sword that was sold at auction a while ago with this style blade.
http://p2.la-img.com/690/18683/6326445_1_l.jpg

And here is an interesting wooden sword with a similar hilt shape.
http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...20%2F%20%20394

I am sure I have seen at least one very similar sword before but I am having trouble remembering where...

Cheers,

Iain

Lew · 29th October 2011, 05:10 PM

Mauro

Here is a link to one I have with a scabbard.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...frican+machete

Iain · 29th October 2011, 05:24 PM

That's the one I was thinking of! The leather decoration on Lew's example certainly makes me think of the general Sahel region. It doesn't not seem specifically Manding though (lack of the usual cross hatch motif and rounded 'ribs' of leather).

Mauro · 29th October 2011, 06:29 PM

thanks Lew and Iain for the information. I am not able to open the http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...%20%2F%20%20394 Is there any mistake in the link ? I am happy to have found a twin of my machete and it also has a scabbard that add some information about the possible provenience of the piece. Thanks also to Lew for the connection to a previous thread that contains the list of symbols for west Africa. I already noted some of them in some swords but I have to find where.

Iain · 29th October 2011, 06:52 PM

I hope this link will work.
http://anthro.amnh.org//anthropology...vMHs1Huc.email

Mauro · 3rd November 2011, 11:03 PM

Iain, it works but it is not very similar. Thanks anyway.
Lew, would you be so kind to add a more detailed photo of your scabbard ?

ariel · 3rd November 2011, 11:19 PM

Isn't it peculiarly similar to the so-called Beduin pseudo-shashkas?

Mauro · 4th November 2011, 09:58 AM

Hi Ariel, could you add some photos or reference. Thanks

ariel · 10th November 2011, 08:41 PM

Here are examples from Artzi Yarom's site:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=67

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3538

Mauro · 11th November 2011, 01:21 AM

Many thanks Ariel. I really appreciate. I follow the Artzi site but erroneously almost uniquely the African side. You are right, these swords have many similarities with the sword I bought. The form of the handle is similar but the copper decorations of the handle in my blade is peculiar and I also note that the blade I presented is truncated as well as the blade of Lew. The scabbard of the Lew knife is also quite typical of West Africa. The fact that Bedouin tribes crossed the Sahara and are found from Maroc and other north African countries could suggest that our form is a slightly modified form of the blade you show to us. I think it is a quite good explanation and I would say that this is a blade of the Western African Bedouins. Many thanks again

29th October 2011, 12:58 PM	#1
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	west african knife. Which tribal group ? Hello everybody, I bought this knife that the seller attributed to West Africa. I share his attribution although I do not know any other similar knife. In fact the form of the blade, 70 cm long, show some similarities with the Baulè knives. The blade is original and it has not been shortened. It is very well made, flexible and sturdy at the same time. I would say that it is european. The handle is very peculiar because it is decorated with copper wires with intricate design that I have seen only in some Tuareg daggers. Does anyone have more informations ?? Attached Images

29th October 2011, 04:25 PM	#4
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Yes, Iain, the blade has some similaritiy with a Baule but I noted these decoration on some Telek. I add for camparison some photos I copied in the web. Attached Images

29th October 2011, 01:28 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	I have seen similar wire work by Philippine/Moro blades! But never a knife like this. Regards, Detlef

29th October 2011, 01:35 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	The blade makes me think of Baule tribe as well. Some past threads that might be of interest: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=baule http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=baule The hilt on your sword however does not appear Baule to me...

29th October 2011, 05:00 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Mauro, I agree the sword is probably not Baule, it is possible to see this blade style in other cultures. For example here is an almost takouba like sword that was sold at auction a while ago with this style blade. http://p2.la-img.com/690/18683/6326445_1_l.jpg And here is an interesting wooden sword with a similar hilt shape. http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...20%2F%20%20394 I am sure I have seen at least one very similar sword before but I am having trouble remembering where... Cheers, Iain

29th October 2011, 05:10 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Mauro Here is a link to one I have with a scabbard. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...frican+machete

29th October 2011, 05:24 PM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	That's the one I was thinking of! The leather decoration on Lew's example certainly makes me think of the general Sahel region. It doesn't not seem specifically Manding though (lack of the usual cross hatch motif and rounded 'ribs' of leather).

29th October 2011, 06:29 PM	#8
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	thanks Lew and Iain for the information. I am not able to open the http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...%20%2F%20%20394 Is there any mistake in the link ? I am happy to have found a twin of my machete and it also has a scabbard that add some information about the possible provenience of the piece. Thanks also to Lew for the connection to a previous thread that contains the list of symbols for west Africa. I already noted some of them in some swords but I have to find where.

29th October 2011, 06:52 PM	#9
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	I hope this link will work. http://anthro.amnh.org//anthropology...vMHs1Huc.email

3rd November 2011, 11:03 PM	#10
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Iain, it works but it is not very similar. Thanks anyway. Lew, would you be so kind to add a more detailed photo of your scabbard ?

3rd November 2011, 11:19 PM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Isn't it peculiarly similar to the so-called Beduin pseudo-shashkas?

4th November 2011, 09:58 AM	#12
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi Ariel, could you add some photos or reference. Thanks

10th November 2011, 08:41 PM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here are examples from Artzi Yarom's site: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=67 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3538

11th November 2011, 01:21 AM	#14
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Many thanks Ariel. I really appreciate. I follow the Artzi site but erroneously almost uniquely the African side. You are right, these swords have many similarities with the sword I bought. The form of the handle is similar but the copper decorations of the handle in my blade is peculiar and I also note that the blade I presented is truncated as well as the blade of Lew. The scabbard of the Lew knife is also quite typical of West Africa. The fact that Bedouin tribes crossed the Sahara and are found from Maroc and other north African countries could suggest that our form is a slightly modified form of the blade you show to us. I think it is a quite good explanation and I would say that this is a blade of the Western African Bedouins. Many thanks again