Bali keris hilt or plokokan hilt?

Sajen · 9th October 2011, 11:59 PM

Dear members,

I have already long this hilt and I am very unsure if this is a keris hilt since it is bend to the right while keris handle normally have a light bend to the left. The handle is worked from black horn and seems to have a good age. I think that it is from Bali or maybe from Lombok. What do you think?

Sajen · 10th October 2011, 12:05 AM

I have also this three handle, I guess all from Bali, where I think that this are most probable plocokan (betel pounder) handle, but really sure I am only by the last one.

Sorry, the order is not like I upload the pictures. The first and the two last pictures show the handle where I think that it is a plocokan handle.

All comments are welcome and I am curious to read what is your opinion.

Regards,

Detlef

GIO · 12th October 2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Sorry, the order is not like I upload the pictures. The first and the two last pictures show the handle where I think that it is a plocokan handle.
Detlef

IMHO you are right. Frankly I am a bit puzzled by the hilt shown in pics 2,3 and 4 . Holding it in hand would not be so comfortable ....
Could it be made for a display keris ?

Sajen · 12th October 2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

IMHO you are right. Frankly I am a bit puzzled by the hilt shown in pics 2,3 and 4 . Holding it in hand would not be so comfortable ....
Could it be made for a display keris ?

Hello Gio,

thank you for comment. I think you mean the handle from whale bone, the human with the bird on his shoulders? Believe me, I just test it again, this handle is a very confortable grip.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 12th October 2011, 11:23 PM

With usual qualification:- based upon what I can see in the photos.

man with bird --- keris, recent, not for wear

black hilt --- keris, recent, Lombok

naked figure --- keris

man with serpent --- pestle or small knife (pisau pemutik or temutik), however, I feel this has been done purely as a sculpture, because both knife hilts and pestle handles usually have a ferrule fitted

By "recent" I mean after WWII

An enormous amount of small sculptures in the form of hilts have been available in Bali and Lombok over the last 30 years; a lot of things produced in Lombok are sold in Bali.

Sajen · 14th October 2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

With usual qualification:- based upon what I can see in the photos.

man with bird --- keris, recent, not for wear

black hilt --- keris, recent, Lombok

naked figure --- keris

man with serpent --- pestle or small knife (pisau pemutik or temutik), however, I feel this has been done purely as a sculpture, because both knife hilts and pestle handles usually have a ferrule fitted

By "recent" I mean after WWII

An enormous amount of small sculptures in the form of hilts have been available in Bali and Lombok over the last 30 years; a lot of things produced in Lombok are sold in Bali.

Hello Alan,

thank you for comment.

Do you have a statement for the circumstance that the black hilt is bent to the wrong side? I am unsure about the age of this hilt, you may be very well correct that it is a hilt after WW2 but this hilt have clearly signs of good use. It is worked from black horn and at the touching areas becomes "white" what I have only seen by horn when it was long in use. So when my assumption about use and your assumption that it is a keris handle both are correct why is it bent to the wrong side? This question employed me every time again when I have hold it in my hand and was also the reason of this thread. Do you have seen other hilts (for keris) with this "wrong" bent?

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 14th October 2011, 11:05 PM

I did not say that the black hilt was made for use, I only said it was a keris hilt as opposed to a pestle handle.

I also said:- "An enormous amount of small sculptures in the form of hilts have been available in Bali and Lombok over the last 30 years; a lot of things produced in Lombok are sold in Bali."

Now what does that tell us?

Black horn with white areas?

Nothing unusual. It can be original to the horn, it can be the result of coming into contact with some chemical. Light areas on dark horn do not necessarily indicate long use nor age. Based upon what I've seen for sale in Bali I'd date this black hilt to no earlier than about 1980.

Detlef, I can only provide an opinion on what I've seen, and in my opinion this black hilt is exactly like the things that were coming out of Lombok a few years back and being sold in the tourist traps around Kuta and Legian. I see less of them these days.

Marcokeris · 15th October 2011, 01:08 AM

Normally when black horn is very old the horn it becomes like old wood. (Sometimes i use a red fire pin to understand if it is wood or horn by smelling the smoke from the hilt)

9th October 2011, 11:59 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,126	Bali keris hilt or plokokan hilt? Dear members, I have already long this hilt and I am very unsure if this is a keris hilt since it is bend to the right while keris handle normally have a light bend to the left. The handle is worked from black horn and seems to have a good age. I think that it is from Bali or maybe from Lombok. What do you think? Attached Images

10th October 2011, 12:05 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,126	I have also this three handle, I guess all from Bali, where I think that this are most probable plocokan (betel pounder) handle, but really sure I am only by the last one. Sorry, the order is not like I upload the pictures. The first and the two last pictures show the handle where I think that it is a plocokan handle. All comments are welcome and I am curious to read what is your opinion. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

12th October 2011, 11:23 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,965	With usual qualification:- based upon what I can see in the photos. man with bird --- keris, recent, not for wear black hilt --- keris, recent, Lombok naked figure --- keris man with serpent --- pestle or small knife (pisau pemutik or temutik), however, I feel this has been done purely as a sculpture, because both knife hilts and pestle handles usually have a ferrule fitted By "recent" I mean after WWII An enormous amount of small sculptures in the form of hilts have been available in Bali and Lombok over the last 30 years; a lot of things produced in Lombok are sold in Bali.

14th October 2011, 11:05 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,965	I did not say that the black hilt was made for use, I only said it was a keris hilt as opposed to a pestle handle. I also said:- "An enormous amount of small sculptures in the form of hilts have been available in Bali and Lombok over the last 30 years; a lot of things produced in Lombok are sold in Bali." Now what does that tell us? Black horn with white areas? Nothing unusual. It can be original to the horn, it can be the result of coming into contact with some chemical. Light areas on dark horn do not necessarily indicate long use nor age. Based upon what I've seen for sale in Bali I'd date this black hilt to no earlier than about 1980. Detlef, I can only provide an opinion on what I've seen, and in my opinion this black hilt is exactly like the things that were coming out of Lombok a few years back and being sold in the tourist traps around Kuta and Legian. I see less of them these days.

15th October 2011, 01:08 AM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Normally when black horn is very old the horn it becomes like old wood. (Sometimes i use a red fire pin to understand if it is wood or horn by smelling the smoke from the hilt)