European axe

ericlaude · 13th May 2011, 11:56 AM

Hello everybody,
I found this big European axe with this mark of smithy.
Someone can give me information about this mark ?
Thank you in advance for your answers.

broadaxe · 13th May 2011, 07:22 PM

To my best knowledge this is not a smith's mark but a religious symbol. It is not uncommon to find similar marks on plenty of european steel tools dating from the late middle ages to the industrial revolution. It is some kind of a code, with repetitive marks usualy meant for good luck. It looks like the 'tree of life' merged with a trinitary cross.

Jim McDougall · 14th May 2011, 04:54 AM

I agree with Broadaxe, this is certainly not a makers mark, but a symbol which may have been intended to carry certain magical or talismanic properties. I am not especially well acquainted with axes, but this thing seems unusually large for a war axe and even more so as a tool.

As far as the marking, it is indeed in a sense quite possibly religiously based, as such marks typically were in early times, but may also have other symbolism.It seems like the letter 'G' appears at many points on the figure, which is situated in the configuration of a cross with many added arms at different angles. In many ways it resembles the 'anchor' which is a cross disguised with numerous added patibulum and serifs and seen on many Solingen blades (esp. with Spanish motto) of 18th c. and on many earlier Spanish blades.

On the other hand, it very much resembles a much earlier kind of marking in this kind of configuration known as a 'carroccium' which in actuality was a full size standard assembled on a wagon and used in Germany and N. Italy in medieval times (after mid 11th century). In these standards were religious devices and typically topped by a cross. Markings resembling these armed are known on some sword blades as early as 12th century (Oakeshott)but probably continued later and may have inspired the later 'anchor' type figures.

Again, not familiar with axes, nor the types of markings usually found on them, but it does not seem unreasonable to see such marks on various weapons in N.Europe. I would defer on the age of this piece to hands on examination. How long is the haft, if there is one on it?

Also, with response to the letter G, as well as the note to the 'Tree of Life", in esoterica such as gemetria and Cabbalistic lore, this letter is also associated to the Hebrew 'yod' which among its meanings represents the seed of the Tree of Life. Im not sure exactly how that would fit in here, but thought it would be worthy of note in examination of the mark.

All best regards,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 15th May 2011, 04:56 PM

Hi Jim,
A very interesting note - can you take it further?
Jens

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Jim,
A very interesting note - can you take it further?
Jens

LOL! OK Jens, thats like asking Tolstoy if he could lengthen his writing!!!

I can but (groan) that means excavating here in the bookmobile. Anything in particular you have focus on?
All the best,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 16th May 2011, 04:13 AM

Jens, again I'm, glad that you at least have found these comments interesting...after 145 views on this thread, and not one other response, it is nice to have at least a word of note. These queries are interesting to me too, and thats why I enjoy spending the time going through notes etc. to see if I can find answers....and its encouraging to see that at least people are reading.

As far as I can see, this axe, by its typology and form is very similar to English headsman axes of late 16th-early 17th century. While I see what appears to be genuine age pitting consistant with a weapon this old, which seems to have been cleaned, if it is of period that would rule out being a later ceremonial or fraternal type accoutrement or regalia item. What brings that to mind is the fact that the letter 'G' is well known in Masonic symbolism, and though the Tylers sword as a ritual piece is established I know of no use of large bearing type axes used in thier ceremonies.

Leaving the idea of the 'G' tree being of Masonic association, we return to the possibility of this being an actual headsman axe. In Germany, there were long the mysterious tribunals known a those of the Free Judges, or Vehmic courts. There are numerous examples of 'heading' swords associated with these and on them are various symbols, inscriptions and themes keyed to life and death, justice and redemption. We might presume that similar symbolism and themes might occur on other such 'weapons of justice' in other countries as well, and there were of course always notable connections between England and Germany.

In medieval times, the use of symbolism which often appeared in various forms on weapons in many ways had distinct association and development from the mysticism of the Cabala. While I cannot claim any particular effective understanding of this, I do know that many of the symbols and sigils eventually became utilized in other esoteric venues including astrology, alchemy and many aspects of magic and folklore.

One such element of Cabalistic symbolism was the 'Tree of Life' which seems to have representation in many religions and traditions in varying form. In Jewish mysticism, it occurred in a strikingly similar configuration with the top and bottom and branches having orbs, and ten in number. These represent the ten Sephiroth and thier enumerations. In the case of this example on the axe, there appear to be 11 capital G letters at the terminus of each 'branch'.

While this discrepancy can fairly eliminate the distinctly Cabalistic connection, it does not eliminate the potential for it being evolved from or mindful of the original configuration.Though its actual meaning ,now out of context,cannot be determined without further evidence, it does seem to be a 'Tree of Life' related symbol. It is unclear what the G means, and though I thought it may be connected to a Hebrew letter with symbolic meaning, I have not yet found satisfactory support for that, so I will leave the capital G significance as undetermined.

At first sight, I thought this looked perhaps like an old Germanic or North European axe, and that the marking had some resemblance to old runic characters or perhaps even Ogham, but of course that was quickly ruled out. The visual similarity to the branched symbols known as 'carrocium' was also tempting, but there seemed to much disparity in timeline, and these were fairly uncommon though appearing on a few sword blades.

I had mentioned earlier similarity to the 'anchors' or cross type figures with numerous crossbars with serifs in variation and number. These occur as noted on various blades in about early 17th century from Germany and Spain and seem to have evolved from Cabalistic sigils. These were not makers marks (though sometimes associated with certain ones through variation), but actually talismanic applications often accompanying other inscriptions.
That was what I referred to in considering the configuration of this marking, which at this point seems most closely connected to the Cabalist figure of the Ten Sephiroth, or Tree of Life.

All of this is of course is admittedly pure speculation on my part based on what material I could find which seemed to correspond, and as always, I look forward to the thoughts of anyone else who might care to comment.

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 16th May 2011, 08:34 AM

Jim,

That was an absolutely fascinating read to go along with my morning coffee. Thank you for again sharing your knowledge and insights.

The only tidbit I can offer is the number eleven is occasionally associated with the eleven disciples - after Judas is dead, before Matthias is chosen. I doubt it has any use here but the number eleven is not one that usually crops up in Medieval symbology, at least in my scant knowledge.

Probably more likely is that it is indeed a tree of life depicting all eleven of the Sephirot. Actually you already have an image of this in your attachments. The configuration of ten is:

KETER, CHOKHMAH, BINAH, CHESED, GEVURAH, TIFERET, NETZATCH, HOD, YESOD, MALKUTH

The addition could be DA'AT, which usually replaces KETER in later versions but I guess could appear side by side.

The capital G letters may be nothing more than what the smith had at hand to make the terminal shapes and might have no greater meaning.

My only problem with the tree of life theory is that there are two extra lines present (without terminals) and that the arrangement of the branches does not fit within the normal configuration of the Sephirot, where the main trunk should also carry some of them rather than all being branches - this is important due to connections between the symbols. However this may be chalked up to a smith who didn't know better?

Best,

Iain

ericlaude · 16th May 2011, 11:59 AM

Thank you very much at all , in particular to Jim or Profesor Jim.
The handle is not original, and its length isn't sure.

Jens Nordlunde · 16th May 2011, 04:03 PM

Hi Jim - that is what I meant (JUDL).
You are really good, when you start digging - thank you very much.
Jens

Jim McDougall · 16th May 2011, 05:18 PM

Thank you so much guys for such kind words!!! (as I adjust my mortarboard Ericlaude

, and it means a lot. I truly enjoy 'digging' as Jens notes, and to me its sort of historical data archaeology. There is so much behind the weapons themselves, and it is an incredibly fascinating journey searching for the answers. This forum is always at its best when we are all digging and learning together...and Iain thank you for the added notes on the eleven sephiroth, which I missed altogether and nicely adds to the understanding of this marking. I think your suggestion on the use of the capital G is very well placed, as well as the extra lines.
It is pretty well established that blacksmiths much as common folk, often, if not typically, were illiterate depending on location and period, and when applying markings or symbols by either description or copying certainly may not have been entirely faithful to the original design.

This is actually the first time I have seen this Tree of Life in this type configuration on a weapon, and in this case, what appears a 'heading' axe, so is extremely valuable for notes. Thank you again guys!

All the best,
Jim

13th May 2011, 11:56 AM	#1
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	European axe Hello everybody, I found this big European axe with this mark of smithy. Someone can give me information about this mark ? Thank you in advance for your answers. Attached Images

14th May 2011, 04:54 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	I agree with Broadaxe, this is certainly not a makers mark, but a symbol which may have been intended to carry certain magical or talismanic properties. I am not especially well acquainted with axes, but this thing seems unusually large for a war axe and even more so as a tool. As far as the marking, it is indeed in a sense quite possibly religiously based, as such marks typically were in early times, but may also have other symbolism.It seems like the letter 'G' appears at many points on the figure, which is situated in the configuration of a cross with many added arms at different angles. In many ways it resembles the 'anchor' which is a cross disguised with numerous added patibulum and serifs and seen on many Solingen blades (esp. with Spanish motto) of 18th c. and on many earlier Spanish blades. On the other hand, it very much resembles a much earlier kind of marking in this kind of configuration known as a 'carroccium' which in actuality was a full size standard assembled on a wagon and used in Germany and N. Italy in medieval times (after mid 11th century). In these standards were religious devices and typically topped by a cross. Markings resembling these armed are known on some sword blades as early as 12th century (Oakeshott)but probably continued later and may have inspired the later 'anchor' type figures. Again, not familiar with axes, nor the types of markings usually found on them, but it does not seem unreasonable to see such marks on various weapons in N.Europe. I would defer on the age of this piece to hands on examination. How long is the haft, if there is one on it? Also, with response to the letter G, as well as the note to the 'Tree of Life", in esoterica such as gemetria and Cabbalistic lore, this letter is also associated to the Hebrew 'yod' which among its meanings represents the seed of the Tree of Life. Im not sure exactly how that would fit in here, but thought it would be worthy of note in examination of the mark. All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th May 2011 at 05:08 AM.

16th May 2011, 04:13 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	Jens, again I'm, glad that you at least have found these comments interesting...after 145 views on this thread, and not one other response, it is nice to have at least a word of note. These queries are interesting to me too, and thats why I enjoy spending the time going through notes etc. to see if I can find answers....and its encouraging to see that at least people are reading. As far as I can see, this axe, by its typology and form is very similar to English headsman axes of late 16th-early 17th century. While I see what appears to be genuine age pitting consistant with a weapon this old, which seems to have been cleaned, if it is of period that would rule out being a later ceremonial or fraternal type accoutrement or regalia item. What brings that to mind is the fact that the letter 'G' is well known in Masonic symbolism, and though the Tylers sword as a ritual piece is established I know of no use of large bearing type axes used in thier ceremonies. Leaving the idea of the 'G' tree being of Masonic association, we return to the possibility of this being an actual headsman axe. In Germany, there were long the mysterious tribunals known a those of the Free Judges, or Vehmic courts. There are numerous examples of 'heading' swords associated with these and on them are various symbols, inscriptions and themes keyed to life and death, justice and redemption. We might presume that similar symbolism and themes might occur on other such 'weapons of justice' in other countries as well, and there were of course always notable connections between England and Germany. In medieval times, the use of symbolism which often appeared in various forms on weapons in many ways had distinct association and development from the mysticism of the Cabala. While I cannot claim any particular effective understanding of this, I do know that many of the symbols and sigils eventually became utilized in other esoteric venues including astrology, alchemy and many aspects of magic and folklore. One such element of Cabalistic symbolism was the 'Tree of Life' which seems to have representation in many religions and traditions in varying form. In Jewish mysticism, it occurred in a strikingly similar configuration with the top and bottom and branches having orbs, and ten in number. These represent the ten Sephiroth and thier enumerations. In the case of this example on the axe, there appear to be 11 capital G letters at the terminus of each 'branch'. While this discrepancy can fairly eliminate the distinctly Cabalistic connection, it does not eliminate the potential for it being evolved from or mindful of the original configuration.Though its actual meaning ,now out of context,cannot be determined without further evidence, it does seem to be a 'Tree of Life' related symbol. It is unclear what the G means, and though I thought it may be connected to a Hebrew letter with symbolic meaning, I have not yet found satisfactory support for that, so I will leave the capital G significance as undetermined. At first sight, I thought this looked perhaps like an old Germanic or North European axe, and that the marking had some resemblance to old runic characters or perhaps even Ogham, but of course that was quickly ruled out. The visual similarity to the branched symbols known as 'carrocium' was also tempting, but there seemed to much disparity in timeline, and these were fairly uncommon though appearing on a few sword blades. I had mentioned earlier similarity to the 'anchors' or cross type figures with numerous crossbars with serifs in variation and number. These occur as noted on various blades in about early 17th century from Germany and Spain and seem to have evolved from Cabalistic sigils. These were not makers marks (though sometimes associated with certain ones through variation), but actually talismanic applications often accompanying other inscriptions. That was what I referred to in considering the configuration of this marking, which at this point seems most closely connected to the Cabalist figure of the Ten Sephiroth, or Tree of Life. All of this is of course is admittedly pure speculation on my part based on what material I could find which seemed to correspond, and as always, I look forward to the thoughts of anyone else who might care to comment. All the best, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 16th May 2011 at 05:49 AM.

16th May 2011, 05:18 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	Thank you so much guys for such kind words!!! (as I adjust my mortarboard Ericlaude, and it means a lot. I truly enjoy 'digging' as Jens notes, and to me its sort of historical data archaeology. There is so much behind the weapons themselves, and it is an incredibly fascinating journey searching for the answers. This forum is always at its best when we are all digging and learning together...and Iain thank you for the added notes on the eleven sephiroth, which I missed altogether and nicely adds to the understanding of this marking. I think your suggestion on the use of the capital G is very well placed, as well as the extra lines. It is pretty well established that blacksmiths much as common folk, often, if not typically, were illiterate depending on location and period, and when applying markings or symbols by either description or copying certainly may not have been entirely faithful to the original design. This is actually the first time I have seen this Tree of Life in this type configuration on a weapon, and in this case, what appears a 'heading' axe, so is extremely valuable for notes. Thank you again guys! All the best, Jim

13th May 2011, 07:22 PM	#2
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	To my best knowledge this is not a smith's mark but a religious symbol. It is not uncommon to find similar marks on plenty of european steel tools dating from the late middle ages to the industrial revolution. It is some kind of a code, with repetitive marks usualy meant for good luck. It looks like the 'tree of life' merged with a trinitary cross.

15th May 2011, 04:56 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jim, A very interesting note - can you take it further? Jens

16th May 2011, 08:34 AM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Jim, That was an absolutely fascinating read to go along with my morning coffee. Thank you for again sharing your knowledge and insights. The only tidbit I can offer is the number eleven is occasionally associated with the eleven disciples - after Judas is dead, before Matthias is chosen. I doubt it has any use here but the number eleven is not one that usually crops up in Medieval symbology, at least in my scant knowledge. Probably more likely is that it is indeed a tree of life depicting all eleven of the Sephirot. Actually you already have an image of this in your attachments. The configuration of ten is: KETER, CHOKHMAH, BINAH, CHESED, GEVURAH, TIFERET, NETZATCH, HOD, YESOD, MALKUTH The addition could be DA'AT, which usually replaces KETER in later versions but I guess could appear side by side. The capital G letters may be nothing more than what the smith had at hand to make the terminal shapes and might have no greater meaning. My only problem with the tree of life theory is that there are two extra lines present (without terminals) and that the arrangement of the branches does not fit within the normal configuration of the Sephirot, where the main trunk should also carry some of them rather than all being branches - this is important due to connections between the symbols. However this may be chalked up to a smith who didn't know better? Best, Iain

16th May 2011, 11:59 AM	#8
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Thank you very much at all , in particular to Jim or Profesor Jim. The handle is not original, and its length isn't sure.

16th May 2011, 04:03 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jim - that is what I meant (JUDL). You are really good, when you start digging - thank you very much. Jens