Origins of the Keris?

[Orang Lama]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any opinions on the shape of these bronze Hoko spearheads from the Kyoto National Museum. This particular form seems to be a local variant on the Chinese ge dagger-axe and so would have been mounted perpendicular to the haft.

[David]

Hi Orang Lama. We don't generally discuss non-keris items on the keris page and my inclination is to transfer this to the Ethnographic Forum. But if i understand you correctly from how you titled this thread you seem to be enquiring if these blades could be a forerunner to the keris??? I do see the similarity in form, but don't personally feel fully qualified to give a substantiated answer here. So i will allow the discussion to continue as long as it stays focussed on keris, though i suspect it will end up in the Ethno Forum soon enough.
My gut response is no, these are not related to keris, and any similarities are merely coincidental, but perhaps some of our more knowledgable members have a different opinion on than. I have never heard or read of anyome relating the origin of keris to Japanese edged weapons.
It would be helpful to know to what era the Kyoto National Museum dated these. Also they appear different from what i am seeing as Hoko spearheads when i search.

[A. G. Maisey]

The question of keris origin has been addressed by many people, and when we examine this matter closely we find that it is something that is inextricably tied to the socio-cultural development of Jawa prior to 10th century, CE.

Across the world there are a number of weapon forms that can resemble the keris in one way or another, and a simple physical resemblance is not sufficient upon which to build an idea of origin.

However, if we can show trade, cultural & political links between the Central Javanese society during the early Classical Period & Japan, that might be a place to start investigation.

But then we are immediately faced with the fact that the keris is culturally tied to the Javanese/Balinese Hindu belief system. It might be quite difficult to introduce an idea of Japanese influence.

[Orang Lama]

Well, I'm not really suggesting anything at all, especially not some sort of influence from Japan. What I did find interesting is how some features of the overall blade shape could be interpreted as making sense when one views the blade as being a very distant and derived descendant of a blade that was originally mounted perpendicularly to a haft. Whether or not that ancestral blade was a Chinese 戈 dagger-axe or an entirely indigenous Javanese weapon is neither here nor there.

And of course this could all be a completely coincidental resemblance. And yes, none of this proves anything.

But just for fun, I'll just list some of the features that I find interesting.

[Orang Lama]

a) The relatively short tang found on keris corresponds to the short tang one sees on dagger-axes and which is essential to the way in which dagger-axes are mounted are attached to the haft.

b) The blumbangan corresponds to the holes which were used for attaching dagger-axe blades to the haft. Once the ancestral blade shape started being used as a dagger rather than a polearm, these holes no longer served any purpose. However, retaining at least one hollow at the base of the blade provided both a connection to the revered ancestral form as well as a secure anchor point for the thumb when holding blade in a pinch grip.

c) The blades on dagger-axes tend to cant to one side because they are used with an arcing downward pecking motion. While the offset tip on the keris might help with thrusting, it is arguably not necessary for a stabbing weapon.

d) Likewise, the base of the blade is asymmetric on dagger-axes in order to deal with the stress from the arcing strike. This gives the blade a distinctive flaring profile.

e) Moreover in order in order to reinforce the blade mounting, the very base of the blade has been thickened and asymmetrically lengthened. It does not take much imagination to picture this reinforced section becoming an independent section, which would greatly resemble the ganja. At the same time, picturing the ganja as being derived from a hand guard would require one to explain both why it is made from the same material as the blade and is attached as if it forms an intrinsic extension of the blade.

f) Indonesian cultures have an established practice of dismounting pole arm heads to use them as daggers.

I've attached a picture of a Zhou era Chinese ge (戈) dagger-axe and the Knaud keris for comparison.

[David]

Hi Orang Lama.
Please note that you are still a member under moderation so you posts do not automatically appear on this page. We try to check for new posts daily so please be patient and do not repost because you did not see post immediately appear on the forum. Thanks!