12th October 2020, 02:28 PM | #1 |
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IVORY FOR POMMEL
Hello,
This is supposed to be a sperm whale tooth. Purchased from a seller who informed us that it came from tawi-tawi, from way way back. My plan, if indeed this is sperm whale tooth, is to use it as a pommel to an old barung or kris (which has no pommel). I've done some reading and this specimen conforms (in my unexpert opinion) to ivory. The ff are some things I have read on ivory's characteristics: a) ivory always has parallel grain, like rings on a tree or crosshatch pattern called Schreger lines. On closer inspection, this tooth has both parallel and crosshatch patters. b) in contrast to bone, ivory has a smooth feel. Thanks in advance for you inputs. Regards Yves |
12th October 2020, 07:12 PM | #2 |
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Please show a pic of the root-hole. This will make it a little bit more clear.
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12th October 2020, 07:17 PM | #3 |
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Sperm whale real and fake/resin
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12th October 2020, 07:19 PM | #4 |
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Walrus real and fake/resin
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13th October 2020, 02:50 AM | #5 |
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IVORY FOR POMMEL
Hello,
Many thanks for the initial info. Here are some more pics. Thanks in advace. Yves |
13th October 2020, 06:50 AM | #6 |
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Very difficult to judge from photos alone, but from what I see, it looks like resin.
You can easily test it ether trying to burn a tiny piece of it or by simply polishing it and you'll see how it behaves. If it melts and smells like plastic is resin, if it smells like "dentist" it is ivory. |
13th October 2020, 08:11 AM | #7 | |
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13th October 2020, 08:39 AM | #8 | |
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ivory for pommel
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Can you expound on the statement 'how it behaves'? what would be best to use for polishing? Thanks Yves |
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13th October 2020, 08:38 PM | #9 | |
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How it behaves: if it melts is plastic; if it smells like "dentist" is ivory.
For polishing you can use sandpaper, 600-800 grit and give it a few rapid rubs. If it is ivory will smell like "dentist." For final shiny polish you need to go to higher grit (3000-7000). Quote:
I do not advise polishing/fire testing any finished product. For a raw piece of material is another story. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 13th October 2020 at 08:49 PM. |
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14th October 2020, 01:50 AM | #10 | |
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14th October 2020, 03:12 AM | #11 | |
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14th October 2020, 05:51 AM | #12 | |
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14th October 2020, 06:08 AM | #13 | |
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IVORY FOR POMMEL
Quote:
Did some 'polishing'- and it smells like burned 'enamel.' must be the 'dentist' smell. I did contact an expert on this things. Sent her some pictures. Initially, there's the presence of Schreger lines + crosshatch pattern on the tooth. And I was advised to bring the item to her for a visual verification. Thanks and regards, Yves |
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14th October 2020, 06:20 AM | #14 |
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IVORY FOR POMMEL
Hi again,
forgot to include another test which I did (upon the instruction of the jeweller). I got a needle, had it red hot on the fire and tried to pierce the tooth. - and voila, it did not went into the tooth. Best Yves |
14th October 2020, 03:09 PM | #15 |
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The geometry of the cracks is consistent with ivory.
From all I know there are some ivorine resins that crack, but without round/circular cracks. Round/circular cracks are specific to ivory as they follow the growth rings. |
14th October 2020, 03:53 PM | #16 | |
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14th October 2020, 08:44 PM | #17 | |
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Disagree again with you, soory! The sperm whale tooth look real to my eyes but agree with you that's difficult to judge from a picture alone. Regards, Detlef |
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14th October 2020, 08:48 PM | #18 | |
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Sperm whale tooth shows no Schreger lines so far I know, only elephant ivory shows this lines. Regards, Detlef |
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14th October 2020, 08:49 PM | #19 | |
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14th October 2020, 08:50 PM | #20 | |
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15th October 2020, 02:02 AM | #21 | |
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Thanks very much for the assessment! |
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15th October 2020, 02:45 AM | #22 |
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Here are other samples, from another friend's collection. The one with the reddish hilt intrigues me, as it's a standout from the other ivory-looking samples. One of the hilts is also unique, having a string of hawk bells tied from the base of the pommel up to the gangya as a makeshift guard.
TIA for anyone who'll assess! Much appreciated. |
15th October 2020, 02:59 AM | #23 |
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Xasterix, the Maguindanao pommel looks like aged Mother-of-Pearl in silver frames to me. I have seen it darken like this.
The other pommels are ivory. The red coloration is the result of the presence of sulfur which oxidizes the ivory from red to a dark reddish brown or a honey-is brown. I find the T'boli bells interesting. |
15th October 2020, 03:15 AM | #24 | |
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15th October 2020, 09:49 AM | #25 |
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A non-destructive test is to use an ultra-violet light (I bought one of these fairly cheaply at a local shop that sells electronics). Ivory has a distinctive blue sheen, which resin does not have: I recommend a bit of practice, shining the lamp on plastic, bone, etc. so you can see the effect.
Incidentally, horn shines light brown when lit by ultra-violet light. Which is a useful test if you can't decide whether something is made from horn or wood. |
16th October 2020, 03:35 AM | #26 |
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You should definitely take Sajen's word over mine on everything!
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16th October 2020, 03:36 AM | #27 | |
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That is a really interesting piece. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. |
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17th October 2020, 06:21 AM | #28 |
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This again proves a lot of trade between Philippine groups. Fascinating isn't it?
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13th May 2021, 08:21 AM | #29 |
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Hello everyone...would like to ask your opinions on this pommel. I'm still in the process of restoring the rest of the kris, but I suspect this is ivory. Would appreciate your inputs, thanks!
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13th May 2021, 10:44 AM | #30 |
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It's clearly Elephant ivory. Very nice patina.
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