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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 30
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Dear members, I would like to kindly request your opinions on this blade which appears to be made of wootz steel.
I am a newbie to ethnographic weapons but this one seems to be someone fishy to me. |
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#2 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 909
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This blade is made of a coarsely laminated steel in which layers of contrasting alloys have first been forged parallel to the flat faces of the 'proto -' blade and then a design drilled out and the whole then reforged flat and ground to disclose the disturbances created in the layering. It appears to be a good piece of work although I cannot tell how old it is.
Please see this article elsewhere on the site for a further discussion. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,042
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This is a modern work from India or Pakistan ... The end of the 20-th century ...
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 459
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I have a collector friend who owns wootz steel persian antique blade bought from christie. Old blade does not looks new, that is one of the sign. And real old wootz steel blade costs a bomb due to the rarity. This blade looks new.........
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#5 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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I agree. Many of these "bird's eye damascus" blades are being sold in mass quantities from India (and Pakistan). Even the koftgari is new in style.
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
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Unfortunately, like you can learn from the previous comments, this is not a wootz blade, but a pattern welded one.
And it is a very poor quality one. This type of blades are in most cases so soft that they cannot hold an edge and are easily bent. I suggest you learn about the differences between WOOTZ (the oriental/antique/original "Damascus" steel) and PATTERN WELDED STEEL (what many call "Damascus" these days). A good point to start would be Leo Figiel's book "On Damascus Steel." |
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,614
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I have a similar blade from 20 years ago, when I was also a beginner. I suspect other members here may also have some of these newly made khanjars and/or other items made for the souvenir industry, as these are the kind of items many collectors get in the beginning. You should not feel bad about it at all, but rather use this as an opportunity to learn more about the actual antiques, wootz, etc. - this forum is a great starting place, with plenty of interesting threads on Indian arms.
Teodor |
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#8 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,284
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Sure, I have one of these with carved stone handle.
People made that from scratch; probably a cottage industry; most likely with hand tools which in itself is impressive. ![]() |
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#9 | |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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![]() Quote:
![]() Figiel's work is a must have - great work. |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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Conduit,
Please take these comments in a constructive way: nobody is mocking you. Beginners’ mistakes were committed even by the most experienced Forumites. Mistakes are an integral part of any educational process. Luckily, these modern Indian creations are not expensive and your monetary loss was a fair price for educational experience. Just remember the rule: buy good books and read them first. As for Damascus blades, I would recommend one by Manfred Sachse “Damascus Steel” If you have determined the kind of bladed weapons you would like to collect, feel free to let us know and people here will be glad to direct you to good and reliable sources of knowledge. In a little while you may wish to deepen your expertise and will expand your library. After that, you might notice that for every new weapon you would be buying at least two new books, and then suddenly you yourself will become an expert:-) |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 407
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I haven't read Figel's book, but Lee Jones's paper " Blade Patterns Intrinsic to Steel Edged Weapons" linked in #2 above, is a must read as well.
Regards, Ed |
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