Oceanic Club-Opinions?

[dolly-dagger]

Hi Folks,
I have enjoyed your site for several years,and now a new member.Thank you for letting me on board.Great Stuff!!! I am starting my first post with a very short pole club that I have always assumed to be of Fijian origins.The club is 25 inches,and made of a very dense black Pacific hardwood,which also appears to be stone/shell carved.The handle is carved in a much different form than the usual.I have a modest collection of tribal art,and this differs in the style than the 60+ oceanic clubs in my group.I have seen some Fijian clubs with Tongan,as well as Maori motifs/designs,and wanted to get any opinions that one may have? Thank you in advance.Michael

[Robert]

Hello Dolly-Dagger and welcome to the forum. While I know absolutely nothing that can help you on your club we do have some very knowledgeable member who should be along shortly to help answer your questions. I am however looking forward to more photos of your modest 60 plus collection of 60 plus oceanic clubs. Again, Welcome aboard.

Best,
Robert

[VANDOO]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM WE ARE ALWAYS PLEASED TO SEE ITEMS FROM OTHER COLLECTORS AND TO GAIN AND SHARE KNOWLEGE. THE CLUB YOU SHOW IS A VERY NICE ONE WITH A INTERESTING CARVED DESIGN SIMULAR TO WHAT I HAVE SEEN FROM FIJI BUT PERHAPS WITH TONGAN INFLUENCE DUE TO THE VARIATIONS IN PATTERN.
TWO FORMS OF FIJI POLE CLUB FIT THIS FORM THE BOWAI WHICH IS GENERALLY LONGER AND THE GADI. I PERSONALLY WOULD CLASSIFY THIS AS THE GADI FORM DUE TO THE SIZE AND FLARED STRIKING END.
SEE FIJIAN WEAPONS & WARFARE BY FERGUS CLUNIE PLATES 11 AND 10, TEXT ON PAGE 56. THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS ON PLATE 18 WITH TEXT ON PAGE 58.
THE BOOK LISTED ABOVE IS THE BEST I KNOW OF FOR REFRENCE ON FIJI WEAPONS SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COPY IT WOULD BE A GOOD REFRENCE TO GET. A VERY NICE CLUB THANKS FOR SHAREING.

[Tim Simmons]

Very nice indeed. I would say 60+ like this is far from a modest collection!!!! I am adding illustrations from "Fijian Weapons & Warfare, Fergus Clunie"
You can see a great variety of handle decoration and I am sure this is not the definitive list. A pole club is a basic design and world wide. There is the possibility that it could come from other Polynesian Islands perhaps ruling out Samoa. As I say very nice and I look forward to seeing and discussing more. I have a staff/club coming in the next week and will and here even though it is Melanesian.

[trenchwarfare]

Welcome aboard Dolly. Show us more.

[Sajen]

Welcome Michael! Nice club.

Regards,

Detlef

[dolly-dagger]

Hi Folks,
Thank you all very much for the kind welcomes,and thank you for your valued opinions.Thank you also for posting images from the Clunie reference.I do have the Clunie book,as well as many others that I have been able to find,regarding Fiji,and Pacific/Oceanic tribal art.I was of the opinion that this could be,what was referred to as a "wife beater" being so short in length? I do remember reading of such clubs in Clunie's book,or perhaps Fiji and the Fijians.I also thought the top half of the handle had a bit of what looks like Maori influence? 60+ clubs is really rather modest when one considers the vast variety/selection,and variations of clubs throughout the Pacific region.In Fiji alone,one might assume.....just by looking at Fergus Clunie's publishing,that with the many styles,and variations of clubs found in Fiji.......60+ is modest.Nevertheless...thank you all once again and I will hopefully return with some more queries in the near future.I am trying to post a few more images for those who asked.Thank you,Michael

[Tim Simmons]

I do not think you can take what is written in many books even based on some limited historic observation as some sort of religious text and turn your brain off {Lord knows so many people find comfort that way}.

Yes one might beat your wife with such a beautiful club, but I believe the Fijians were skilled warriors. Weapons would be made for certain weights, grades and ages of the warrior, and indeed the task demanded of the weapon. Just like soldiers today, an elite snatch raid in a city would be carried out with speed and light weapons not a mortar or heavy belt fed machine gun.

I have a similar item that fits the discussion. A near example is in "Fijian Artifacts, Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery, Rod Ewins" which I add. Said to be a walking staff. 120cm long so a bit shorter than the one in the book, and considerably finer. You can fight with a staff just a much as you can walk with it. In my example you can see that it has had contact with the ground but that does not mean it is not an effective weapon. The item may be thin but the wood is heavy and dense. A big heavy club might be very good at smashing human bodies but light fast weapons in the hands of warriors, confident in their abilities with superb foot work will have delivered at least three blows after dodging a slow heavy club swing. Leaving your enemy to be killed by your fellows with the slow heavy club. Anybody who has studied a martial art will understand this. It might be a good idea to ask yourself does the author have any weapons training? A wife beater reinforces the idea of savagery, Fijians in the past may well have been hard on their women but I do not believe that they blundered into surprise raids, ambushes and battles with just big heavy clubs. Also you have to think of sport, contests as entertainment tournaments, light protection and disputes within a Fijians own chiefs local. I am showing it with other pole clubs of similar weight.

[VANDOO]

A NICE SELECTION OF CLUBS WITH A GOOD RANGE IN AGE. THE TWO TOTOKIA (BEAKED BATTLE HAMMERS) SHOW THE TWO FORMS OF SPIKE SOME SAY THE BROADER CONE SHAPE PREDATES THE LONGER THIN SPIKED TYPE BUT I WOULD NOT KNOW . IT IS GOOD TO HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF EACH. THE OTHER ONE IN THE SET WOULD BE THE TUKI (BATTLE HAMMER) THAT IS THE EARLIER FORM WITHOUT A BEAK.
YOUR LONG BEAKED EXAMPLE IS UNUSUAL IN THAT IT HAS DESIGNS CARVED ON THE STRIKING FACE WHICH IS SOMETHING I HAVE NOT SEEN. IS THE CARVING ON THE GRIP THE STANDARD FIJI STYLE PATTERN OR A MORE COMPLICATED PATTERN? THANKS FOR SHAREING I LOOK FORWARD TO MORE

THE STAFFS SHOWN WOULD SERVE AS A WEAPON, SYMBOL OF ATHORITY AND TO STEADY ONE ON THE SLIPPERY JUNGLE TRAILS WHICH I CAN TESTIFY CAN BE QUITE STEEP AND TRECHEROUS ON HIGH ISLANDS.
WOMEN WERE OFTEN FORBIDDEN TO HANDLE WEAPONS IN SOME SOCIETIES BUT COULD HAVE SUCH A STAFF TO USE THE SAME WAYS AND ALSO AS A DIGGING STICK. THE EXAMPLES SHOWN ARE NICE ONES BUT I SUSPECT MOST WERE NOT AS NICELY MADE.

[Tim Simmons]

To follow on what may or may not be a weapon. Stout, Admiralty Island staff ? 164cm See it in fencing terms, a sword club. The handles are in the right place and the balance is excellent.

[dolly-dagger]

It appears that I offended someone.....not intended....regarding my comment about the short pole club perhaps being that of which is described in what some consider the (Fijian Bible) Clunie's Weapons and Warfare,as well as reading this account in other publications. Historical observations are just that,and incidentally,my brain is never turned off......and just what is religious text? Limited historic observations at best.Yes,one can imagine that the Fijians were indeed skilled warriors,with the many weapon styles,and the many horror stories that were told,which are also historical observations.The same observations,and documenting made by which most of this information is acquired,including your observation on sport,contests as entertainment tournaments, light protection and disputes within a Fijians own chiefs local.What else does one have? Of course they were proficient at making clubs to suit what ever task was required. These clubs were primarily made to dispatch your opponent quickly.They claimed to be of a cannibal class,because this was their culture,and they allegedly liked it.It was said that during the early years of Pacific Whaling,and European voyaging,Fiji,as well as the Solomon Isles were avoided,as having the potential of being a dinner guest.The Fijians were and are very superstitous,and many items were reserved for the chiefly class,which was a wide practice thought the Pacific region.Many things that were considered sacred Chiefly items were forbidden/Kapu/Taboo for commoners to posses.If found to possess such a piece...say a whale tooth.one may well have a neat little hole punched into his skull,i.e Totokia. In fact the smaller pole clubs,were allegedly a chiefly thing as well,as were Totokia,Whale Tooth Ivory,fly whisks,forks,etc... All of these things have been documented.Most documented by Missionaries attempting to change what they considered a Savage culture.One must remember that without observation,and documention,many of these cultures have disappeared,as they had no known written language,and were only able to pass the History from generation to generation,by way of song,chant,or verbal stories that often get lost,or diluted over time.often with the aggressive tactics of the Missionaries.And of course the knowledge/observations of foreign writings,and journals that were kept by those making these keen observations,are what remains,aside from stories.Take a good look at what happened in Hawaii,just to mention another very Westernized affected culture.I reside in the Pacific region,and have several Fijian friends,that know very little about Fiji,their culture,and the past,and of others that have a great bit of knowledge of the past.Many were taught to repress the past history,cannibal history,along with the brutality,that was pervasive in the Pacific Region,and headhunting,and cannibalism is not only reserved to the Pacific Region.Remember they loved having guests,for dinner!!! It was not uncommon for the wife/wives of a recent deceased Chief,to be killed,so they could follow him into the afterlife.Sorry if you were put off by the comment...not intended.I like the staffs also,and very,very familiar with martial arts/stick fighting.All the Best

[fearn]

I've seen another take on this, where the pole clubs were given to the weakest warriors, while the heavy "pandanus fruit" spiked clubs were the weapons of the strongest warriors in the front of the line.

Remember, a club can have more than one use, and smaller people do need to use lighter weapons. Personally, I suspect that any club that was designed primarily for wife beating would "accidentally" end up as firewood under the cooking oven.

While I'm not sure Fiji used quite the same logic for inheritance that the Polynesians did (e.g. rank was based on descent), but often, the oldest woman had the highest rank in the family. An aristocratic wife-beater makes me suspicious, especially when the description comes from a missionary.

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Dolly.

No offence taken at all. No comments were aimed at anybody specific, all meant to be sardonic humor. In time you will get used to my posts.

[colin henshaw]

Hello dolly-dagger,

A fine selection of Fijian clubs, they seem to be very sought after and popular with collectors. Do post more examples from your collection.

Presumably Fijians also started producing these clubs to order/resale after the arrival of Europeans - do you have any views on this - how can one spot "tourist" examples ?

Regarding the small club you posted - I so no reason to doubt is was used for "wife-beating" or other similar domestic purposes, but could also be used as a weapon against tribal enemies in case of need, depending on the circumstances.... I have also seen Fijian clubs made in very small dimensions for children (Pitt Rivers Museum).

[Tim Simmons]

My new item has arrived and as I said, I add it here.

Before I do this a few more thoughts about the most elegant and beautiful lustrous club Dolly started the thread with. It could be that fine light weapons like this, could be more of a status, prestige rank item. Made for display. Very often the higher up the food chain a person is weapons often morph into non functioning versions. Rommel had a baton as did many of military big wigs.

All this brings me to my new item. I thought it might be a club as the sellers pictures were rather poor and they gave the impression that it was longer and heavier. However I am very pleased with what turned up. It is exquisite and probably the best thing I have in my collection. It is a prestige staff being far to light to use as a club. Also not at all comfortable in the hand as a walking stick. Held in the middle section is most comfortable with the very slight convex curve to the staff towards the body. When seen next to what are clearly club weapons, you can see that at 93cm long it is too light for fighting. The end shows no contact with the ground as with the clubs. One of the aspect I like most of all is the very artful gaps in the carving of the figures making the finial. One could see some symbolism here but I hesitate to take that any further. Also I find pleasure in the way the stylised frigate birds are so easily recognised. I will also add {as a reply} three pages from " Michael Hamson, Oceanic Art" In the text reference is made to a Harry Beran who after a net search I found is very big in the "Tribal Art" world. He refers to these as staff which I feel they must be showing no signs of ever being used as walking sticks. With a little bit of luck this thread might continue and bring more unusual Oceanic material to the surface.

[Tim Simmons]

Text for "Art Of The Massim & Collingwood Bay, Micheal Hamson, Los Angeles "

[Tim Simmons]

Took a long time but got there in the end. Went to bed left what I thought was a rather low bid, woke up in the morning and bingo it is mine . 112cm long and a piece of marine? ivory? or shell inlay to boot. Just got to get here and pay quite a bit of TAX coming from outside the EU.

[Sajen]

Great club Tim! Congrats!

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Took a long time but got there in the end. Went to bed left what I thought was a rather low bid, woke up in the morning and bingo it is mine . 112cm long and a piece of marine? ivory? or shell inlay to boot. Just got to get here and pay quite a bit of TAX coming from outside the EU.

Looks a good old club, nice with the ivory inlay. Well done !

[VANDOO]

A VERY NICE FIJI POLE CLUB WITH GOOD PATINA AND WEAR THE IVORY SUN DISK BEING THE CHERRY ON TOP OR BOTTOM IN THIS CASE.