![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]()
Hello, my name is Chris and I am a new member to this forum and to sword collecting. I am a history teacher but by no means a sword expert. I have only recently purchased three swords and hope to get many more. I currently have 2 (19th Century?) Tulwars and what I believe is a 1875 Spanish officer’s sword. These pieces were not very expensive so I am not going to be too surprised if they are not genuine, but they do seem quite old. One Tulwar is obviously missing the pommel guard but I still like the appearance. The other Tulwar has a very small grip; I can barely fit my hand on it, is that normal? There does not appear to be any markings on any of the blades besides the markings shown: 1875 and Toledo in the photos. I would like someone who knows more than myself to help me ID these pieces, or confirm my findings. Regards.
Last edited by christek; 10th June 2012 at 01:09 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Hi Christek
Welcome to the forum. Still no photos attached ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
|
![]() Quote:
here we never judge our edged weapons according with the money we paid to get it, in fact we NEVER talk about money, it's indecent between us ![]() nevertheless we have a forum for commercial exchange http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=8 the main criteria is as well as you said yourself, this sword, or this dagger is pleasant for you, that is the essential matter ![]() your Tulwars are real Indian weapons, but it's not exactly my field, there are some guys more informed than me, could be able to bring you an acute answer about the Spanish officer’s sword, please consult may be http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=12 good start with these three items all the best à + Dom |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]()
Hi Dom, Thanks for reply
Quote:
![]() I have always had a few replica swords that I love, but I have just found out having the real thing is even more pleasant! I hope to learn a lot more and be able to contribute to this great site! Thanks for the links and the advice. Cheers |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,063
|
![]()
Small hilts are the norm with Tulwars, partly because the locals are generaly a fine boned race, and partly because sometimes , (hunting swords in particular ) they are gripped with the forefinger over the guard.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
|
![]()
CONGRADULATIONS ALL THREE LOOK AUTHENTIC TO ME. NONE ARE IN MY FIELD BUT THE TWO TULWAR APPEAR TO BE OLD ONES MOST LIKELY FROM SOME OLD INDIA ARSENAL. LARGE STOCKS OF THESE WERE FOUND IN MOST ARSENALS OF THE TIMES SOME EVEN HAVE VERY GOOD BLADES, WOOTZ IS NOT UNKNOWN.
THESE ARSNEAL SWORDS ARE A GOOD PLACE TO START TO LEARN ABOUT INDIAN SWORDS AS THEY ARE NOT EXPENSIVE AND NO ONE HAS MADE REPLICAS OR EXPENSIVE FAKES TO SELL AS REAL OLD ONES. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you for your reply, after some more research I am of the opinion that these are authentic. The tulwars could be as old as 1800 up to 1900, it is very hard to find out a more comprehensive date. The blades appear to be in good condition (the complete tulwar is also very sharp). I understand many from this period may have been constructed using British made blades, but I am yet to discover how one would know this in the absence of markings. I love my tulwars and hope to obtain more or them. In the meantime I will read up as much as I can about them to learn more regarding the ID of these swords. Regards. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
Yes that makes sense- The tulwar appears to have a better feel to it when one puts a forefinger over the guard, at least with my hand anyway. It appears easier to control, but if if I was to swing this in battle I think it would cause me a hand injury! ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th June 2012 at 04:36 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
|
![]()
Hi Chris, welcome to the forum!
The shape of the two tulwar hilts is often associated with Sikhs. Don't recall the source on that, but it comes with the caveat that Sikhs, like everyone else in India, used whatever was available, regardless of details. That said, the rosette pommel "washer" points to Rajasthani work. Late 19th century in my opinion. Regards, Emanuel |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you for your reply and the link- What a great collection! I love the unusual shapes and designs of some of those weapons. I now want an Indian round shield to go with my Tulwars! ![]() ![]() Regards. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you for the reply; very interesting suggestions. I will do some research regarding 'rosette pommel washers' and 'Rajasthani' as I do not currently understand their meanings. From my limited understanding and research I agree that these tulwars could date from the late 19th Century. Thank you, and kind regards. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,063
|
![]()
Re tulwars, acording to the late great H. Russel Robinson, battle tulwars widen slightly to the point, and are generaly older, and hunting tulwars narrow slightly to the point, and are generaly later. The area designated being the point of optimal percussion which is usualy one third of the total length down from the point. In hunting there is little risk of another blade cutting off the forefinger. In battle the sword is used to strike only, defence and parrying is done with the shield.
India is a huge country, and there is a lot of variation in detail of hilts and blades, and blades were traded all over India, and the world. The best diagnostic for an Indian blade is the existance of a blunt section on the first 2 inches of the blade next the hilt, as in never sharpened and intended to be left blunt, known as the "Indian ricasso". This site is a rich source of information, and a delight to explore, enjoy your visits, and welcome to the wonderfull world of collecting. XD Last edited by David R; 12th June 2012 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Added information. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 131
|
![]()
Christek-
Your tulwar hilts are designed with the same intent as many viking hilts. The goal is to lock the hand in place. The wrist is disabled. It's less about hand size, but more about no little wrist flicks. Swords used in this way emphasize an edge moving closer to perpendicular to the target instead of parallel, to maximize contact between the edge and the target. When more wrist mobility comes into play, contact takes place in a more parallel manner. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
|
![]() Quote:
![]() both items have been found in 80's when I was in KSA, I bought them in Jeddah, when the antiques shops were close the airport ... on that time ![]() à + Dom |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
|
![]()
Hi Chris,
The the top of the handle (pommel) consists essentially of a large disk and a large somewhat conical or semi-spherical "nut". Between them is a washer, with rosette or sun burst shape. This sunburst-shaped washer has been associated with swords from the state of Rajasthan, see this thread:http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4479 Of course given India's size and complexity it could be from any number of armouries around the country. Regards, Emanuel Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
A (very careful) enactment of the above, using the tulwar proves this statement very true. Of course, I am completely untrained in tulwar fighting, but I could tell the sword is not designed for wrist mobility; The user has to swing, or bring down his whole arm, a process completely contrasting to other sword designs and fighting: such as rapiers and fencing. I thought I would post a photo of some Viking examples to note the hilt design and illustrate the similar process. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|